At one time, you broke the stereotypes about the prima ballerina by discovering modern choreography for yourself and the audience, and now you continue to search for options for transforming the body and consciousness, despite the fact that you are already being torn apart by the best theaters in the world. Why do you need all this?
I have never been the standard of a classical dancer - since childhood, it was clear to teachers that I was a unit of a new generation. The incredible beauty of the lines and aesthetics of the Vaganov school, behind which stand a thorny path and the most cruel work, have clearly marked boundaries: they do not teach improvisation at all. Professionalism lies in the clarity of reactions, so in the past I used my mind more often, greatly taming the body with endless repetitions of elements - and this stamps you into a certain role. But I could not be blinkered, because I am a man of struggle and rebellion. I'm always short. And when the choreographer-improviser Carolyn Carlson offered to stage “The Woman in the Room” for me, I was afraid that I wouldn’t be able to, - completely different principles of movement. But she said: “You just don’t know yourself” - and conducted an experiment with me so that in an hour I became absolutely free.
What was this experiment?
I was faced with a psychological discovery of my insides - there is no other way to say it. Karolyn brought me into a certain professional trance, inspiring me with the materials of the performance - the poems of Arseniy Tarkovsky and the films of his son Andrei. We talked a lot, and information accumulated to such an extent that I wanted to break through and express it in motion, with my own specific sensation. I began to dance, and she, of course, stopped her assistants: “Give it to her!” I was immersed in childhood memories so that I could return to my original self, forget the systems, structures that gave me a level, but at the same time rigidly formatted. In the same way, we worked with Moses Pendleton and Pina Bausch - all the time we went from associations. For me it was self-discovery, reflections in dance. Once they told me that I was dancing the text: “We are looking at Juliet, but we are reading Shakespeare,” and this was the best compliment for me.
Why did modern dance become too little for you and you began to look for new practices?
I realized that not only for ballet, but even for an ordinary person, muscle relaxation exercises are incredibly important, helping to quickly recover. And athletes and dancers just need to teach their body new loads. For example, I cannot afford to rest - the body immediately begins to crumble. Until the end of our days, we must move. We are like cyborgs: work is hard, and doing nothing is even harder. But it often happens that injuries become a contraindication to serious stress, and then you need to go to other practices, moreover, change your mind. And rightly they say: when the student is ready, the teacher will come.
What practice has been your deepest experience?
Aikune gymnastics, which is now taught in my Context Pro studio: there was a request, and the right person came. I met a hereditary Kazakh healer Abay Baimagambetov. From his grandmother, he inherited the gift of an osteopath, which Abay developed into a unique method that helps to cure even cerebral palsy. This is a unique person, he went through Afghanistan, after which he began to look for a drug-free remedy for the post-Afghan syndrome and a way out of the third degree of disability - and in a prophetic dream, the practice of aikune came to him. Someone will call it shamanism, someone will snort skeptically - this is a matter of acceptance. I can only speak about my experience: my body is very sensitive and immediately recognizes whether a charlatan is in front of me or not, what level of professional? The body will tell everything. Here comes the dancer on the stage - I can tell by one gesture how much he worked, studied and what kind of person he is. Sometimes you see things that make you feel uncomfortable. You read the body like an open book. Martha Graham said, "The movement never lies."
After all, the scene also works like a magnifying glass.
Yes, moreover, she is absolutely naked. The scene is terrible. Every time I think about how I can cope, how I will show this nakedness of mine to five thousand spectators, whether I will be convincing and not funny at the same time. All the time I ask myself the question of the level, age, way of thinking - I'm constantly changing. In addition, performances are always a huge burden: a performance is a feat. And I don’t know if another one will happen, I never prepare myself for several performances. Impossible! I have to spend myself completely, and then somehow refill myself. But I can’t half-heartedly, then I will destroy myself. Sometimes on stage I feel like a conductor: if everything works out, magic happens. And it depends on how much you are immersed in work, honest with yourself, give yourself every day, every hour. Any hack - and that's all, the conductivity has disappeared, a very subtle state. I do not seek to surprise anyone, first of all I need to surprise myself. Through labor, I certainly earned the right to choose: where to be, with whom and how much to dance, I became a welcome guest everywhere. But this is always an additional responsibility - a miracle is always expected from me.
But does the viewer understand what degree of dedication and preparation is behind the miracle?
Feels. But it's better to stay behind the scenes. Sometimes those who were behind the scenes regretted it: they did not want to part with the illusion in which everything on the stage is light and fluttering. And suddenly someone breathes like a steam locomotive, asks for ammonia, or even fainted. Not everyone needs to see it. For me, the most sacred part, the holy of holies, is the process of rehearsals: a laboratory, the highest degree of creativity, a search. Once, at the beginning of our relationship, I invited Kostya Selinevich (husband and producer of Diana. - Note. ed.), someone called him, and he went out to talk. For me it was a wild insult. I got so angry that he remembered this incident for the rest of his life, and now, before allowing someone into the rehearsal room, he conducts a full briefing. (Laughs.)
Is it scary to start from scratch learning a new technique or an unusual body-oriented practice?
Certainly! You need to remove everything that you have already acquired, along with the crown: forget, nail down - and from scratch. The breaking process is strong. All professionals know how difficult it is, not everyone will go for it. But it supports the fact that the modern choreographers that I know as people are just incredible planets. It is interesting even just to be in their space. I poured in quietly: I began to go to the performances of Pina Bausch at her theater in Wuppertal, got acquainted with the troupe. Then I was introduced to Pina, I was confusedly telling something, and she just looked at me and read her own. Then she admitted that she was fascinated by my eyes. Sometimes it seems to me that the eyes are my most accurate tool, many masters have told me about this. And when we started to study, Bausch asked me to dance something from the classics first. I was confused, because I came for something completely different, but Pina was delighted, and I realized that for her this DNA exchange was a powerful experience.
In addition to the transformation of the body, constant performances, you are also the ideologist of the festival, art director, organizer. There are well-known choreographers, like Wayne McGregor, who manage to combine creativity and business, but how can ballerinas do this?!
Yes, it's rare. (Laughs.) Surprisingly, I have always clearly understood what I want, where and in what direction to go. Partly due to the fact that I had to take responsibility and make decisions very early. I was the kind of kid you can trust. It helps me that I'm a fairly structured and disciplined person, and that I got a logical mindset from my engineering parents. I solve many issues mobilely - because of the long life in dance, I have a different type of thinking. Sometimes it is difficult for me to speak: everything that is constructed in the head, ballet dancers are not used to expressing. Sometimes it is easier to express a thought with movement than with words. The team helps me.
How difficult is it to switch from dancing to working on festival processes? Or is rest for you a change of activity?
And if not?
Why then break a person and produce wrong reactions: resentment, misunderstanding, a feeling of dissatisfaction? I was lucky to have incredible partners: Farukh Ruzimatov, Vladimir Malakhov, Igor Zelensky gave me a lot. And they danced with me because they understood - I can, and not because the management decided so. Now I work only with those with whom I can be in dialogue both on stage and in rehearsals. Who understands that you need to be extremely careful. If someone starts to fall into prostration - a partner, a pianist or even a teacher - I immediately stop everything. Because if there is no concentration, there is no point in wasting energy. I already leave the hall squeezed like a lemon, so everything should not be in vain.
You mentioned the wonderful dancers of the past generation, now you are the brightest phenomenon on the stage, but where is the new generation? Why does it feel like a failure?
I found a galaxy of teachers who were real figures. Now there are none, they are all gone. In addition, in the 1990s there was an outflow of personnel - many went abroad. There are few teachers left who are able to teach not to be a craftsman, but to truly think. I dedicated a creative evening to my teacher Lyudmila Kovaleva in gratitude. And it amazes me that everyone said: “What a fine fellow!” But this is the norm: everyone who has achieved something should thank his teacher. This is not accepted at all in our country - in my memory not a single person was honored for his life devoted to the theater. I don't understand how this is possible. The contrast was all the more striking when I said goodbye to my work at the American Ballet Theater - it was an extravaganza, I could not believe that this could happen to an individual, to a Russian ballerina in New York. I can’t even convey what tears of joy, happiness, gratitude were, the viewer simply raged. Such emotions are for life.
And you opened the Context Pro dance studio to give the St. Petersburg ballet poster star names?
No, this is not a school, we do not provide education. I wanted to help specialists improve their level and give amateurs the opportunity to touch the world of dance. I came across this practice in New York, where anyone can come to the studio. You will speak with a neighbor: “And what is your profession?” - and he will answer: "I'm a fireman," - and immediately begins to make a plié. But there I met both Julio Bocca and Mikhail Baryshnikov - he came up and asked how I was doing, and I thought: is this a dream? The most valuable thing is openness, the opportunity to talk even with a young choreographer, even with a master like Mats Ek, what they think about, what they are inspired by, how they see themselves or time. In addition, Context Pro is a natural development of the festival. In our studio in his days there will be a kind of laboratory of movement. When I saw New Holland and found out that spaces and studios with a variety of creative content would be formed there, I thought: why not?
You say that you have always been clearly aware of your path. Is it because you lived more in the body than in the mind? That is, in an intuitive, and not a rational field?
I used both intuition and rationality. Without mind in ballet it is impossible. Each element, for example, a preparation, you do a certain number of times. Five hundred is one level, one thousand five hundred is a completely different level. This has always caused a certain irritation and aggression: well, how much can you do? But bring the element to perfection by endless repetition - and no one will knock it out of you and make it better than you. But the classical school puts hard limits on you. And it was absolutely alien to me, I had no boundaries. I came to the lesson and said that I specifically want to dance, but they answered me that it was impossible or that it didn’t fit my legs. Then I insisted: "Let's try!" And of course, everyone lit up, the creative process began. And once - I'm already dancing what would never be expected of me.
Is it perfectionism? Why, as they often say behind your back, have you always needed the most?
To accumulate baggage. For the first eight years in school and ten years in the theater, you build a framework around which your individuality grows. Maturity comes at the age of thirty. And then it all depends on whether you are ready to take the risk of going on a free voyage, and not hiding behind the back of the theater director. The trick is that, despite the seeming all-in situation, if you are a professional, you will not get lost. The question is getting out of the comfort zone, where you already have recognition and repertoire.
Off stage do you follow the same rules?
In life, I appreciate comfort even in small things - and the team helps me a lot in this, for example, our festival partners provided me with a Genesis G90 car, in which, thanks to the extended version of the cabin, I can freely stretch my legs after rehearsals. And I'm bored in my comfort zone at work. You can bring yourself to perfection - and freeze in it. But I want to develop.
That's a big difference! Why do so few people set themselves such a bar?
Infantilism interferes with ballet dancers - part of life we mine coal in the mines of rehearsal halls, and then we work in the hall, not seeing anything that happens outside the theater walls. Professional experience comes, life - no. Ballet has gone mainstream, but I'm worried that very young dancers are gaining fame too quickly. This is wrong: the interest will go away, and the time to become a great artist will be lost.
Have you been living in conditions of strict discipline since childhood?
Yes, but there's nothing wrong with that. It is the lack of discipline that prevents many from finding themselves. My ballet teacher demanded the maximum from me, knowing that I could stand it. And physically it was so, but psychologically difficult for the child: incredible overloads, and not those that appear during the formation of a ballerina, of a completely different plan. But somehow, I really grew up with it. At ten years old at school they called me "Spinoza", and I thought it was nonsense, some kind of thorn. They gave me material, I immediately completed it and asked for more. I knew I was ready for the next step. And the teacher was stunned - she saw not only the potential, but also the limit, and I came to class the next day and destroyed the limit. So I became a leader without wanting to.
Were you envious?
Nobody likes upstarts, even teachers - he hasn't finished the assignment yet, and I'm already raising my hand. I wanted to share immediately. And as it usually happens at school: “Did someone ask you?”
How is it that you weren't broken?
How to say, enough fears have been laid. Although the psychological pressure depressed me internally, outwardly I was like a tank. But work, work, work always saved me from unnecessary thoughts.
Bad news!
Why not! When you do it with love, completely different mechanisms operate. Which does not negate, of course, the fact that sometimes in the morning you do not want to go anywhere. (Laughs.)
I don't believe this is happening to you.
Of course it does. But now is not the time to relax, everything is scheduled literally by the hour.
To bring the best ballet companies in the world, you need a huge credit of trust. But besides the impressive list of participants, what part of the November program of the CONTEXT festival are you most proud of?
We are staging our own ballet for the first time! Especially for CONTEXT, choreographer Goyo Montero is preparing a premiere with Perm ballet dancers - the work of Asunder to the music of Wagner and Chopin, we will show it at the Stanislavsky and Nemirovich-Danchenko Theater in Moscow and the Mariinsky Theater in St. Petersburg. This is a completely new experience for us. I have long been infected with the idea of making a completely new format of performances based on the principle of synthesis of the arts, involving the best artists in the world. I would like to keep the depth of the ballet, but add spectacle without turning it into pop or acrobatics.
Why are you interested in the synthesis of the arts? Has the ballet become cramped within the archaic framework?
Yes, because it has always been important for me to go beyond the boundaries of classical ballet! Having learned about my dream, the architect and journalist Anna Yudina collected the book Multiverse, which was initiated by the Diana Vishneva Foundation for the Development of Ballet Art. It will be released in October. It gathers insights on movement and dance from those who are constantly pushing their boundaries: photographer Nick Knight, architect Santiago Calatrava, artist Bill Viola, choreographer William Forsythe and other brilliant professionals. And I am very pleased that they all took the time to give an interview for my book.
What should never be missed on CONTEXT?
Professionals will be interested in our strong educational program. We have prepared a unique project with the British Council and London-based Studio Wayne McGregor, whose teachers will conduct a two-day course for choreographers from all over Russia. Its participants will have a chance to receive a grant to create their own production in their city and the opportunity to do an internship at the McGregor Studio. I advise the audience to Hans van Manen's ballet - for me it is especially important, because the choreographer turns eighty-five this year. Among the young people we will bring the promising Justin Peck and we will hold an evening of Stravinsky with productions by Vyacheslav Samodurov, Alexei Miroshnichenko and Vladimir Varnava. The dance company Gauthier Dance will show Nijinsky staged by Marco Göcke - I saw this ballet in Stuttgart and got excited to show it to the Russian audience. The story of the great Russian dancer of the Diaghilev troupe, who rewrote the canons of male dance, body, presentation, creating a myth with his jump, which remained in history.
Do you personally know everyone who participates in the festival?
Yes, either with the choreographer himself or with the troupe. I would very much like Marco Gökke to come - but it is impossible to predict, he is a very fragile artist. I hope that the scheduled meeting with Alexei Ratmansky will take place in Moscow as part of our educational project CONTEXT Speaks.
Freedom is a fetish of modern dance. What does freedom mean to you?
When you value the freedom of another person, because you understand how important it is for you. This is the core that allows you not to succumb to fleeting tendencies, to be so stable in your actions that you don’t think about freedom at all, just be in it.
photo: Ksenia Kargina
style: Roman Kanjaliev
photography assistant: Mikhail Blokhin
stylist assistant: Polina Vinogradova
make-up: Nika Baeva
hairstyle: Svetlana Tilishevskaya
(Park by Osipchuk)Shops: Chanel: Chanel; DLT: No. 21, Marni, Gucci, Adidas by Rick Owens, Laurence Dacade, Balenciaga, Le Silla, Salvatore Ferragamo; Sorry, I "m not: Sorry, I" m not; OFF Vintage: OFF Vintage; Au Pont Rouge: Jacquemus, MSGM, Piers Atkinson, Eugenia Kim; Tatyana Parfionova Alina German: Alina German; SV Moscow: Vetements, Maison Margiela; Comme des Garcons: Comme des Garcons; Project 3/14: Uma Wang; Luch Design: Luch Design
We thank for the help in organizing the filming: the Mokh landscape bureau and personally Dmitry Golubev, the Groza workshop and personally Artem Kuzmin
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I am often asked why I fight. Because of what I leave entries in the books of complaints, for which I write letters to the traffic police, housing and communal services, etc. I don’t need more than anyone, I just don’t like what is happening around and I try to change it. I don't like it when people smoke. Since childhood. In first grade, I was in the hospital from October to February. I had bronchial asthma. For many, this sounds like a sentence, it is true, I, fortunately, belong to that small percentage of people who “outgrow” this ailment. I have never smoked cigarettes in my life, a couple of years ago, while in Egypt, I tried a hookah, it didn’t work. What is there to feel at least? But, I am not against people who smoke, I have good friends who smoke, even smoke a lot, but they do it in such a way as not to cause discomfort to others: they go outside from the premises, move away from the social circle if something happens on on the street, even at public transport stops, you can smoke, but after moving behind the stall, hide behind some structure where there are no people and they don’t even walk by there. And standing and smoking hardly in the face of passers-by is just rudeness.
In 2011, I worked for Radio Minsk, an excellent radio station, on the wave of which there is only good rock and roll. The studio is located in the metro station. Academy of Sciences. And in the morning, at 6 o'clock, one of the first trains brought me to the very center of Minsk. Winter, not like now, but real: -15, the snow creaks, the air is silvery, you leave the stuffy passage and breathe in the surprisingly clean air in the core of the capital, a complete feeling of happiness and ridiculous joy, although you slept for 5 hours at most and work in the first shift… Not a single car, a few people, frosty air enters the lungs like a delicious treat… And then you start to choke, cough, literally tears come out of your eyes. Some creature lit a cigarette right on the last steps. Smoke at home, please. This is still polite, but in reality it is punishable by a fine of up to 4 basic units (Article 17.9 of the Code of the Republic of Belarus “On Administrative Offenses”).
In Belarus, smoking calls the police. Smoking is prohibited at public transport stops, in subway crossings and near them, and in some parks and other points (Regulation "On State Regulation of Production, Turnover and Consumption of Tobacco Raw Materials and Tobacco Products", approved by Decree of the President of the Republic of Belarus of November 17, 2002 No. 28 (as amended on April 30, 2010) It is forbidden to damage your lungs and passively kill neighbors in the house, only here there are already other amounts: from 10 to 30 basic units (“Rules for the use of residential premises, maintenance of residential and auxiliary premises of residential buildings in Republic of Belarus” + Article 21.16 of the Code of Administrative Offenses (CAO).
I do not attack people with cigarettes, I do not attack everyone or only some weak or infirm people. I just ask you to put out the cigarette if this person interferes with me and people standing or passing by. The selfish bastard doesn't always react normally, but as a rule, I emerge victorious in this duel. But I indirectly save the lives of these bastards ...
One day God, gently taking your chin, raised your eyes from the puddle in front of you, and you saw the sky and His horizons. You saw alluring prospects and went to them, then ran. You thought that everyone would run after you. For greater persuasiveness, you began to wave your arms invitingly and shout: “Here, here, follow me!” You ran very fast at first, then got tired and stopped and looked around. No one is running nearby, some, however, took a few steps in the same direction, carried away by your calls, but stopped. Some didn’t even look back, they looked at you waving and continued to walk, as if they didn’t see you and nothing was happening ... You called again, ran again, then walked, looked back. There was no one, a few curious people watched how much you would run. Some people didn't even have an interest in it. You thought something was wrong. I stopped, checked the direction, everything was as it should be.
It was interesting that around the bend, he ran again, looked around - no one. And he said the usual human phrase that people always say in such situations: “Well, I need more than anyone else, or what?” Yes, you need more than anyone else, more than anyone around, God is calling you, this is called a vocation.
A calling has no defeat
Only victory in His battles,
A vocation has no failures
At the foot of the cross, the mother wept,
On the cross was Jesus, her son,
My heart was beating in mortal sadness:
“My boy, You can do anything, come down!”
She didn't say anything out loud.
Her cry died on her lips,
Mother Mary knew the calling
Prayer froze in tears.
She had to give birth and suffer,
I gave my Son to be crucified,
Wash away your own blood with tears,
Accepting your execution under the cross.
Buried in the heart of God the Word,
Taking away her pain, she moaned,
There was her boy, God's Son...
Yes, the mother knew the calling of Jesus.
A calling has no defeat
Only victory in His battles,
A vocation has no failures
Only victory in the rays of His glory.
A vocation is not recognized by triumph,
It is known by its fruits.
Well, I need most of all, do not I?
One day God, gently taking your chin, raised your eyes from the puddle that is before you, and you saw the sky and His horizons. You saw alluring prospects and went to them, then ran. You thought everyone would run after you. For the sake of persuasiveness, you began to waving your arms and shouting: "Here, here, for me!" You ran at first very quickly, then tired and stopped, looked around. No one runs alongside, some, however, took several steps in the same direction, carried away by your calls, but stopped. Some did not even look back, they looked at you waving and continued to walk, as if you were not seen and nothing was happening ... You called again, ran again, then went, looked around.
There was no one, a few curious watched how long you would run. Someone even had no interest in it. You thought: something is wrong. Stopped, checked the direction, everything was as it should be.
It was interesting what after the turn, ran again, looked around - nobody. And then you said the usual phrase that people always say in such situations: "Well, I need most of all, do not I?" Yes, you need most, most of all around, God calls you, it is mission.
The calling has no defeat,
only victory in his battles,
The calling has no failures
At the foot of the cross, His mother sobbed,
On the cross was Jesus, her son,
Heart was beating in mortal sorrow:
"My boy, You can do anything, come down!"
out loud, she said nothing,
Her cry died on her lips,
Mother Mary knew her calling
She stopped praying with tears.
She had to give birth and suffer,
On the crucifixion of the Son,
washing off precious blood with tears,
Under the cross, the place of her execution.
In her heart burying the Word of God,
Restraining her pain, she moaned
There was her boy, the Son of God ...
Yes, the mother knew the calling of Jesus.
The calling has no defeat,
only victory in his battles,
The calling has no failures
Only a victory in the rays of His glory.
The calling is not recognized by triumph,
It is recognized by its fruits.
“What do you need most of all?” - this remark has been heard many times by any activist, whether he is a defender of nature, civil rights or, like us, a cultural heritage. The question is, of course, rhetorical. The questioner does not expect an answer. He thinks he did a great job with you. “You need more than anyone, so you put yourself above us, right? Who do you think you are? Look, you are breaking away from the team…” And why not listen to the answer? Moreover, the answer is simple: “Yes! I need the most."
The team chews, staring at their plate, and you turn your head around. The team is on the side, and you are on the barricade. The team is in unison, but you are not like people. You imagine that you are acting for the common good, but someone on behalf of the collective will certainly inform you that the collective did not ask you to do this.
And where do civil activists come from under such conditions? And meanwhile, there are more and more of them, and it does not seem that they are bothered by the fact that they have come off the team.
Who are these people, and why are they not affected by spells designed to turn all living things into stone? Where did they come from? Why do they easily achieve what was impossible to think about five or ten years ago?
I see such people around me every day and got used to them. You quickly get used to good things. They are young. Who would have thought that the boring matter of local lore would suddenly be on the crest of youth intellectual fashion? However, fashion is fleeting, and interest in the history, life and beauty of the native city has not weakened for many years. Walks in non-tourist corners where the true spirit of the place lives, smart lectures that gather halls, street festivals open to everyone - all this easily turns into pickets and rallies, into scrupulous work with documents, and if nothing else remains, then into protection of perishing monuments with their own bodies. Dictionaries do not keep up with life; they do not yet have the concept of "city protection movement", but it itself has already taken root on the Internet and has become part of the cultural and social life of many large cities. People adjoining it call themselves city defenders.
Young, educated, city dwellers who have seen the world - they could go to other, more comfortable countries, move to clean, comfortable, albeit alien, cities. They could, but they don't want to. Not a woman's love-pity, but a courageous love-responsibility they have for their Motherland. A real historical consciousness awakens in them - strong, lively and creative, which has nothing in common with the old man's timid conservatism. They feel like they are the middle link in a chain that stretches from the past to the future, and they think about how to pass on what they have inherited from previous generations. They, individualists who grew up with private property, are easily given an understanding of the public good; volunteering and self-sacrifice for the sake of preserving what is common property is natural for them. They, pragmatists - sometimes to the point of cynicism - are not alien to idealistic motivations and do not see a contradiction in this. They are full of inner strength and righteousness and therefore fearless. To have principles for them is not a luxury, but a condition of existence. They are the indigo children of our bewildered, tired, mistrust-weary society. Each of them knows what he personally needs. They really need much more than a single polyp from those that form the coral reef of the condo Soviet collective. When they unite, their union becomes the union of free people. Sometimes they fail, but they are invincible as a natural phenomenon.
They are my comrades. It is not at all easy with them, but I would not exchange them for a whole pond of wise minnows, who firmly know what and how much a person needs.
