Preface to the interview. Musubu Nakai's style can be described as baby art. At least some common features are clearly traced: firstly, the main characters his paintings and drawings are teenage girls, secondly, high level technical training allows you to create very realistic images, as Trevor Brown does, and, thirdly, his work can be called provocative.
The artist Trevor Brown, already mentioned here, is considered the founding father of baby art, a Westerner who married a Japanese geisha and created a genre that became widespread in Japan and an equally extensive series of bans in the West. The very fate of baby art tells us its message - the fact that a style that was considered child pornography in one cultural paradigm turned out to be a model of high aesthetics in another calls into question the Western system of values and prohibitions.
Prohibitions and taboos are the core of our society. One of the biggest taboos are children and childhood. We cannot think of childhood in terms of sexuality, and we can only perceive children as innocent angels, sinless creatures. Childhood is a special status that imposes a ban on most words and thoughts addressed to you. We never discuss the real problems of childhood and upbringing, we do not perceive children as people. In fact, society fears and hates children, the most repressive apparatuses created by man are the apparatuses for educating and controlling children. Quite recently emerging from uterine oblivion, these little people carry a dark danger that urgently needs to be extinguished by introducing them into the mechanistic process of social standardization.
We are afraid of children because we never allow ourselves to talk or even think about them and their real problems, in fact, people like Trevor Brown, Musubu Nakai or Peter Sotos are not pedophiles, their work is the practice of taking taboo from the topic of pedophilia, which is hushed up and bypassed in society, which, of course, does not help solve the problem itself. Society is afraid of children because it has committed a sin that is the opposite of the original - the sin of abuse of childhood, and, deep down, we are all afraid of the rebellion of children and children's revenge.
Before starting the interview, I want to mention that Musubu has a store where he sometimes puts something for sale. You can also always contact him (just by googling his name you will find all communication channels) and order a work from him, which he will send you from Japan.
Hi, glad we were able to chat. First of all, please tell me who influenced you the most as an artist?
As a child, I really liked Ado Mizumori, a Japanese illustrator from the 70s. She is left-handed and also suffers from a stutter. As a child, I also stuttered, and I am left-handed. At that time she was my goddess. I also devoted a lot of time to manga for girls, especially comics by authors such as EIKO MUTSU, YUMIKO TABUCHI, MARIKO IWADAtE, etc.
Did you read them as a child or later?
What attracted you to these comics and the work of Ado Mizumori?
Well, you know... There's a difference between portraying girls and boys in comics. I've always liked the portrayal of girls. It's hard to describe... Well, for example, when guys open their mouths in comics, they always show teeth. And here typical image comics for girls from the 70s…
In general, at the same time I fell in love with Miro and Ukiyo-e, because when I was 10 years old, I dug out albums from our house and admired them for a long time. When I entered school, my tastes changed. Of course, I kept reading girl comics, but at the same time I discovered some dark comics like Garo, Hanawa and Yoko Kondo.
Hanawa is great, I really like it too.
Yes! Maybe in September I will have the opportunity to participate in KAIKI magazine with Hanawa. This is a small edition published in Hokkaido, the 1st edition was published this year.
So, these are the artists you were into in high school, but is there anyone you're into now?
Now, probably, Hans Bellmer, Pierre Moulineux and, of course, Balthus can be attributed to such. Someone once told me that my drawings are similar to the works of Balthus, and I myself sometimes think the same way when I draw. But, nevertheless, comics for girls served as the basis for all my drawings.
What exactly do you like about Balthus? Do you find some kind of ideology for yourself in his works, or do you love his paintings only for aesthetic reasons?
I like the facial expressions, the way he draws cats and the composition in general. And I love his thoughts on art. In an interview for Japanese TV, he said that he was not an artist, but a craftsman. I also really like dolls. At the age of 11, I went to the pool, in Harajuku, and every time I saw on the wall of the local station big image beautiful articulated doll, master Shimon Yotsuya. This picture was there because Harajuku has his (Yotsuya) doll making school. Here is one of his dolls. I myself want to make a doll somehow.
I wonder if there is a photo of this image?
No, I'm not even very sure if this image was (maybe it was a doll on display), it was a long time ago, 40 years have passed, I guess.
What else is important to you?
Well, most important aspect for me is that in Balthus all the paintings carry a sexual connotation. For me, in general, only two themes in my work are important - Sex and Death. My hobbies are about sex and death, and my job is to apply those hobbies to old comics for girls.
It seems that in addition to Balthus, you were influenced by other French figures, whose circle included Balthus. Sex and death - a combination in the spirit of Bataille.
Yes, indeed. I really like Bataille's History of the Eye. Sex and ecstasy break down language barriers and social standards. I love situations like this.
As for the dolls. Tell me a little about it?
I would like to do an exhibition of my dolls in December of this year, but they are not ready yet. I had the experience of creating dolls, but I don’t like what happened. I want to make a wooden, articulated, of course, doll. I have almost no experience and skills in this, but I have friends who do this and will help me with advice.
You said that sexual pleasure is important to you. Does this mean that your dolls and drawings are their realization? Do you get sexually turned on when you draw? Or before that, when you think about the idea of a drawing? And how do you come up with ideas of what to draw?
Yes, sure. For me, only sexual pleasure is important. In the process of creating a drawing, I am not in an excited state. I mean the result creative process is not the goal of my sexual ambitions. In my work I express a feeling of sexual satisfaction. I have to explain the process of how I create my work. Sometimes I paint while lying on my bed, and sometimes I masturbate or sleep while creating my work. All the time that the process takes, I feel good and comfortable. I call myself Momine Gaka. “Gaka” is an artist, “Momi” means masturbation, and “ne” means to sleep or lie down. I place the notebook on my chest and draw.
So do you improvise or do you imagine the whole picture before you start?
When I start painting, I already know the composition... I mean, I can sketch out the composition in the first few minutes when I start painting, automatically, I don't like to go into details and overthink and complicate the drawing.
How much time does it take to create a job?
Drawing A4 is 10 minutes for sketching and another day for development.
D do you think about child sexuality? After all, as you say, your works often lead to your childhood memories and at the same time there is a lot of sexuality in them.
I don't like pedophiles. At the very least, children should not become sexual objects in any form. I myself do not like to draw children as a sexual object. But in my imagination, I can act as a young man. They (teenagers) are one of the “subjects” carrying a secret experience, often associated with sexuality and love in my work. In my works I don't see them as an 'Object', they are a 'Subject' that is equal to me. I draw people who have sexual fantasies and experiences of enjoyment, and these people are myself. They have this experience of pleasure instead of me. And, you know, they're not that young for me. Those whom I draw in my works are over 14 years old. At this age, they began to have a conscious and sweet experience of love or sex.
To put it simply, I repeat - they are me.
But, you know, going back to your question... Sometimes artists are attacked and accused of pedophilia. For example, the exhibition was recently attacked famous photographer Jock Sturges in Russia. In France, some nationalists attacked the Stu Mead exhibition.
In my case, some of my works are sometimes removed from some resources. I believe that my work is not related to pornography and pedophilia. But society itself determines what is pornographic for it and what is not. And these decisions are not driven by thoughts about art, but by the political or moral convictions of some people. Beliefs can change.
In Japan in the 80s, taking pictures of a little girl showing her vagina was not a crime. Because the police and authorities did not consider small children to be sexual objects for normal people. Today, such photographs are a crime (we are not talking about artistic photo, like the same Jock Sturges). One of my Flickr followers was an obscure porn actress. She uploaded her usual pictures to the site. One day she uploaded old photo, which her parents probably made and on which she, as a child, swims in the pool with her childish breasts bare. The girl posted her photo from childhood and this is definitely not pornography. But Flickr not only deleted the photo, but also her account.
Are the perceptions of pornography more progressive than in the 80s? Or is the person who photographed this girl a pedophile criminal? In the end, all morality about sex is determined political system. Michel Foucault was right. I'm just following the rules. If my works are condemned by someone as pornography, I will draw them for myself, in my dark room. This is my fate, and it's not so bad, it seems to me, after all, I am part of society.
Can you tell us more about the girls you draw? Do they have any backstory? What world do they live in?
Usually, when I start drawing, I don't have any definite images in my head. But when I start, I come up with some new (or old) things, it happens automatically. Therefore, in my drawings there are many of the most different situations. Perhaps this is a reflection of my inner orientation. I never thought about what specifically I want to say in my drawings. It seems to me that the most important thing is to have a pleasant feeling when I or someone else looks at my drawing.
As far as I can imagine, Japan is a country of traditions. Are you in conflict with traditional thinking? Or do traditions serve as a source of inspiration?
As a child, I really loved Ukiyo-e ( Japanese technique wood painting). And I really love some of the traditional paintings, especially those dedicated to the nature of Japan. Everything that any artist does cannot be completely unique. Some artists try to negate traditional systems and create new styles and trends, but we always create something using what has been created before us. All our art is based on previous works and experience. Only the surface of the art is original. Therefore, most of my work is done under the influence of traditional Japanese art.
And perhaps last question. I have some Trevor Brown books coming to my store soon. What do you think of him? What do you think of baby art? I ask this because some people see your work and define it as baby art, do you agree with this definition?
I do not object to such a definition. By the way, I once had Trevor's work, but I put it on the Yahoo auction. There is even an old photo that shows it.
About baby art. There are many artists who paint children. Trevor Brown, Stu Mead, Mike Ryden.
Why is baby art popular? Well, quite often adults shave their hair to look like little girls. In the 90s, Neo-Acoustic was popular in Japan - strawberry story, BMX bandits, Flippers Guitar, Heavenly and so on. Their music sounds like children's songs. And, you know, today's mods, Pastel Goth - I think all these phenomena have something in common with baby art.
But Pastel Goth is a fairly innocent phenomenon, while Brown's paintings are quite extreme, and the artist himself has been banned in many countries.
Disagree, I think the idea behind Pastel Goth is that it's a movement for adults who have lost their virginity and want to imagine being sexually innocent again, so Pastel Goth is a movement based on sexuality. Trevor Brown hides sex in baby art in exactly the same way.
Do you have such ideas in your work?
Perhaps, but my work is subjective. For example, Gottfried Helnwein, who does some pretty brutal work, his work Objectively, his girls act as objects. Although ... Maybe his heroines are half subjective, half objective, I will say this. That is, those whom he draws are different from him, but reflect a part of his “inner”. Trevor Brown's baby looks like a child from a children's picture book. His viewer operates on the same principle as Pastel Goth, his child is Subjective. After all, we all want to be children and have sexual experiences as children. I think these are healthy thoughts.
Sometimes art shows an abnormal and sick side.
Baby art is not abnormal, it is a social trend that is abnormal.
You can buy the artist's work
Once in an interview, Trevor Brown was asked: "Why are you so cruel to the little girls on your canvases?" "This is not cruelty at all! I call my work misanthropy!" - that's what he answered scandalous artist smiling sweetly.
Trevor Brown - who is he
What made this man so famous? Trevor Brown- shocking artist, originally from England. He prefers to shock the public with the depiction of violence, Satanism and childish sexuality in his paintings. Despite such a terrifying, unusual sight, there were also fans of the artist's work. As for the style of the paintings, for the most part they resemble the traditional features of pop art. However, Trevor himself united own paintings into a single style, which he later called baby art.
Spectacle or nightmare
Although the work of Trevor Brown is truly provocative, in reality this is what makes it remarkable. Just the terrible things depicted on the canvases of the artist are striking, attracting the eye and causing some interest. Trevor's art is a kind of middle ground between Eastern and Western pop culture. English artist managed to extract from these poorly combined cultures an unusual one, resulting in a bright exciting mixture - catchy sexual fantasies expressed through Asian schoolgirls.
Biography of Trevor Brown
How it started creative way extravagant artist? Trevor Brown was born in the capital of England. After graduating from art school, the guy went along the traditional path of the majority contemporary illustrators- got a job in a small design studio. During several years future artist worked in various advertising agencies and design workshops. So Trevor became a highly sought after advertising illustrator in London at a very young age. In the late 80s, Brown fell into the ranks of the radical underground organization artists. By illustrating several popular records and albums, the artist Trevor Brown has gained cherished popularity.
Over time, the outrageous illustrator got tired of the measured and absolutely calm rhythm of the life of the British. The hypocrisy and dullness of the English nation became boring to the artist, he became uninterested in the culture of this country. So Brown became actively interested in Japanese art and oriental heritage. During this period, the London illustrator met the musician Masami Akita and entered into a correspondence with him. Communicating with his new friend, Trevor gradually began to learn the field of modern experimental music, and he really liked it.
Life in Japan
Trevor Brown's interest in Japanese culture grew every day, and in the early 90s he still managed to escape from boring England and move to a colorful Asian country. There, the artist got used to it very quickly, acquired regular customers and even gained popularity among local art connoisseurs. Paintings by Trevor Brown began to be published in Japanese art publications, and galleries in the Country rising sun opened their doors to the illustrator.
After only a few years of living in Tokyo, the artist married a famous geisha. His work in the vastness of Japan has become truly popular, and the illustrator has become in demand. Gradually, Trevor became very close to the musicians involved in experimental work, which significantly affected the artist's art at that time.
Soon, Brown's work began to be published in pornographic magazines, and the artist chose as his constant source of inspiration. Japanese girls, the image of which on the canvases of Trevor today horrifies the audience of galleries.
Brown style
In his art, the artist Trevor Brown combines the main features of Western and Eastern cultures. It was he who became the founder of a new direction in contemporary art, which he called baby art. Having created sexual work in today's art, Trevor Brown combined pornography, satanic torture, Japanese schoolgirls, sadomasochism, pop art outlines, pedophilia, dolls and medical fetishism in his paintings. For a simple layman, this combination will certainly seem at least inadequate. However, in the view of Trevor Brown, his work presents the public with his own view of girlish sexuality.
The artist was inspired by Asian schoolgirls, who are still praised in Japan today. In fact, among Japanese men there is a whole cult dedicated specifically to schoolgirls. For some reason, very young girls there become real celebrities, uniting in music bands, dance groups and theater companies. Japanese men are captivated by various spectacles with the participation of girls, such events are always extremely cheerful and bright. So Trevor drew his inspiration from the Japanese cult of schoolgirls. True, the essence of his work does not at all obey modest Eastern principles.
Images on the canvases of Trevor
A generalized image of the work of the artist Trevor Brown can be called a Japanese schoolgirl dressed in a classic plaid skirt with her hands tied. Or a very small naked girl with a lollipop in her mouth, surrounded by all sorts of toys and symbols of the phallus. Almost all of his paintings depict some kind of violence, phallic symbols, naked girls and toys. Visually, all this chaos does not in any way fit into a single composition united by some specific theme. Maybe that's why Trevor is credited with the style of pop art.
Brown is often accused of pedophilia and love for everything violent. However, from this the illustrator's interest in own creativity only grew. The more often Trevor's work was banned, the more he wanted to portray something more harsh and unacceptable.
Artist's work
To understand the depth of Brown's work, his illustrations must first be seen. During his rather eventful career in the field of art, which has been going on for more than a decade, the artist has earned a truly cult status. Oddly enough, his crushing paintings in in large numbers decorated all kinds of underground publications, books and albums, T-shirts, records and even Greeting Cards. Trevor illustrated album covers popular bands Coil, John Zorn, Deicide, Kayo Dot, Whitehouse, Venetian Snares.
Among other things, the artist's creative baggage contains many prohibited illustrations by Trevor Brown, which never saw the light of day. For example, one such work was french book titled Alice in the Garden of Evil, illustrated by Brown. This edition has not been released for sale.
In 2008, Brown became a member judicial trial, which protected his copyright. The conflict escalated because famous band Crystal Castles began using Trevor's illustrations without his permission. In the same year, the case was stopped on the basis of a financial agreement between the parties.
At home, the artist's art caused a mixed reaction from the English audience and the media. It also influenced Trevor's decision to leave London for good and travel to Tokyo.
Brown is often compared to the famous one, who also preferred to use childish characters and a variety of manifestations of violence, suffering and pain. However, the artist himself, of course, denies the similarity with Mark, insisting on his own uniqueness and individuality.
English artist today
Now Brown's work is considered an integral part of Japanese art. For many years, Trevor has been married to a geisha who supports her husband in every possible way. He is one of the most active participants in the design of prestigious Japanese pornographic publications. In addition, Brown collaborates with popular underground periodicals in Europe and America. True, despite the successful cooperation, paintings by Trevor Brown are still prohibited from being imported into many European countries.
Anglo-Japanese artist Trevor Brown was born in London. After graduation art school he followed the traditional footsteps of an illustrator - he worked in design studios and advertising agencies. A highly sought-after advertising draftsman in his youth, Trevor Brown became involved with the radical art underground in the late 1980s. He illustrated Nietzsche's "The Anti-Christian", ran around the archives of Charlie Manson and published some absolutely terrible fanzines. He gained cult fame by issuing the Hellraiser record by the great occult sodomites Coil. Brown is fed up with the boredom and hypocrisy of England. In 1989, he begins to be interested Japanese culture and art. He actively corresponds with noise musician Masami Akita and is drawn into the space of modern experimental music. Interest in Japan is growing, and in 1993 Trevor Brown changed London to Tokyo. Trevor's works are published in Japanese art publications, Japanese galleries open their doors to the artist. In Tokyo, he marries a famous geisha, gets close to the local noise scene, starts painting for porn magazines, and finds his constant source of inspiration in the sweet and deadly demon dolls of Japanese schoolgirls. Trevor Brown's art is at the crossroads of Western and Eastern pop culture. He founded a new direction in contemporary art- Baby art. Combining pop art, medical fetishism, porn, sadomasochism, pedophilia, dolls, Japanese schoolgirls, torture on his canvases, he managed to create sexual works in contemporary art.
baby art– not devoid of meaning look at girlish sexuality.
Brown's inspirations are Japanese schoolgirls. The generalized image of his work is a Japanese schoolgirl in a plaid skirt and her hands tied.
Or a little naked girl with a lollipop in her mouth and her hands tied, surrounded by her favorite toys and phallic symbols. Trevor Brown is often accused of pedophilia and admiring violence. The more often Brown's albums were banned and removed from sale, the more strongly grew his desire to portray something harder.
