Dmitry Lisin, he talked for a long time and in detail, which resulted in the publication quoted below.

Leonid Fedorov: "Our country is now just twisted"

SINGER AND MUSICIAN - ABOUT THE NEW ALBUM "PERMANENT FUN AND DIRT", PERFORMANCES BY KIRILL SEREBRENNIKOV AND ABSURD IN THE STATE

April 6 in the Moscow Central House of Artists, and on April 8 in the St. Petersburg "Erarta" will be a presentation of the new album by Leonid Fedorov and Israeli musician Igor Krutogolov "The Persistence of Fun and Dirt" on the texts of Daniil Kharms. Dmitry Lisin spoke with the leader of the "Auktyon" about how this work appeared, as well as about many other things - from life in exile to paintings by Chaim Soutine and Amedeo Modigliani.

Leonid Fedorov is 55 and continues to climb musical Olympus, which became quite Oberiutian for his work. Yes, and the poetry of the author of most of the songs of "Auktyon" Dmitry Ozersky is also in this tradition. listening new album“The Persistence of Fun and Dirt” by Leonid Fedorov and Igor Krutogolov to texts by Daniil Kharms, you notice, first of all, how complex this music is with external simplicity, that is, with a huge “proprietary” number of sounds of various colors, simple melodic lines cut into memory. The first result of hearing is immutable and strange fact: the song "Fefulinka" does not go out of my head anymore, because you are my fefulinka, doll-friend, you are my auntie, berry-circle. And you will never be able to get rid of the shock slogans "Pif bang": the whole whole whole marriage poof. In the first, title, song of the album "The Persistence of Fun and Dirt", Fedorovsky's bass appeared, drawing the infernal janitor-caretaker of our dreams, in the second song "Sharik" - the touching children's vocals of Lydia Fedorova, in "Sheep" - the countertenor Krutogolov, and all the songs are ruled by melodic gift of Fedorov. There is also the song "A Quarter of Smoke", made with lips without instruments, and there is infrasound, which is not successful for the bass drum. There is "Fazhens" with an unearthly rhythmic pattern, there are a lot of things, as many as 14 compositions. The music is divided into two characteristic, very different streams, Fedorov and Krutogolov wrote four songs each and four together. It is important that two songs are sung by Lida Fedorova, that is, they are on the children's-female pole of "yin", responsible for the fun of the album. And Kharms' absurdist-prophetic poetics and Krutogolov's percussion bass guitar are responsible for the dirt, heaviness, absurdity and darkness of human life.

- What is the history of the appearance of the album "The Persistence of Fun and Dirt"?

- Igor Krutogolov has long and firmly loved Kharms and persuaded me for a long time, but for some reason I did not want to. He composed the songs New Year”and“ Fathoms ”, and for some time we thought that this would be included in the film “Dow” by Ilya Khrzhanovsky. Not included. And then Lida suddenly came up with two songs - one right in the car, the second in a New York bar, where they immediately recorded it on a voice recorder. And I realized that the time had come for Kharms. It is important here that the music was written on the texts, as well as on the "auction" disk "On the Sun", where I took the finished poems of Dima Ozersky. Usually we write lyrics to music.

Leonid Fedorov and Igor Krutogolov Vladimir Lavrishchev

- Kharms has a language that is congenial to modernity and what is happening to us now. And generally speaking, how are great poets present in modern times?

- In Europe, it seems to me, all poets are considered modern, there readers do not treat them with much reverence. Well Goethe. And everything that Dante wrote is a modern Italian language, and in any Italian city you can see a man reading Dante aloud. If a man came out in London and began to read Chaucer in the garden, which Dante did a little later, not a single Englishman would understand anything. That is, Dante made the modern Italian language back in the 13th century. And a hundred years before Dante, Francis of Assisi wrote. And before Pushkin, who built the Russian language, we had poets cooler than Derzhavin: now Vasily Petrov has been published, close friend Prince Potemkin-Tauride.

- What do you think about today's rap fashion? Theater experts suddenly began to admire rap battles and attribute them to the “Theater. doc ”, then to the post-dramatic theater.

Yes, we also had a rare experience, you know how “often” we go to the theater. At the end of the year before last, Lyosha Agranovich approached me, he says that I play Walsingam with Serebrennikov in Little Tragedies. I sat down and wrote a song in the evening, after which we went to meet Kirill Serebrennikov. We went to the performance in December, and halfway through the first act, I realized that I actively did not like it. Lida says - be patient, but I can't. Then Lyosha came out, said his monologue cooler than Smoktunovsky, and it became more or less. And up to this point, it doesn’t matter what the text was, instead of Pushkin, Agnia Barto could have been. All the youth on the stage - as if they are not there, and then the rapper Husky came out, who is no longer there. Okay, you can not pronounce the text of Pushkin, but it was necessary to do something adequate to this power. As a result, I left and drank brandy alone in a bar. Now, if there were a hundred of us in the bar, then yes, but there’s nothing to be upset about - I say to Lyosha. And at the end, powerful grandmothers played, and everything was fine. I remember when Kinchev appeared with rap, there was energy there. Serebrennikov's ideas are understandable, the flight over the cuckoo's nest, but what was missing was the live presence of the director. For comparison, I will say that other things Serebrennikov, which I managed to see, are much cooler. The Muller Machine is an awesome performance. " ordinary story”according to Goncharov - good, did not cause a desire to leave. Kostya Bogomolov and the beautiful Sati Spivakova played in the Müller Machine, the rest are naked. And everything rested on this couple: she is good, and Bogomolov is cool, he has something inside, he is calm.

Lida Fedorova Dmitry Lisin

- And what other actors do you like besides Bogomolov and Agranovich?

- Here is Lars von Trier's signature actor Stellan Skarsgard, he is the grandfather in Nymphomaniac, and in Breaking the Waves, and everywhere. And then we watched the darkest series "River", he is there alone against the background of others, and you understand his power. No one is close to where he is, just some kind of Solonitsyn. He smiles and you laugh, he frowns and you cry.

- And what do you think about Kharms's nightmare, which covered with a copper basin all those who value the arts? I mean the “theatrical business” that began with the fact that the prosecutor announced: there were no performances by the Seventh Studio, and you just invented reviews and sent them to newspapers that came out five years ago.

More like Kafka. I do not see much novelty, because the delirium of life in the state did not go anywhere, therefore Kafka and Kharms are great writers. State people hardly understand what absurdity is - this is their normal condition. At some point, in the 90s, we thought that the absurdity would go away, but it did not happen. If you look more broadly, this happens everywhere in the world. Any ban is absurd. Why can't you drink beer outside? And once it was possible to eat people. One friend told me what he overheard in Sapsan - two people are riding in suits, and the older one is teaching the young one: remember, the most important thing is to be able to obey. So much for the order of obedience, the absurdity of living by order. I thought it would hit even harder. We have to treat this in a Kharmsian way, because both in everyday life and in the courts there are a lot of stories of absurdity. Anyone can be imprisoned, imputing to him the fact that a common person considers it a feat. The texts of the absurdists are uninvented things.

Better run somewhere. How much time do you spend with Lida in Moscow and how much outside the cordon?

- For the last two years every month we have been in Moscow for no more than a week, that is, three-quarters of the time we have been in Europe. If we sit here for a month in a row, a very strange feeling sets in - what is it that we are not going anywhere.

— Pure tourism?

“I wouldn’t say it happens at the same time as the case. Over the past two years, they began to travel to London often, and every month. We try to visit Italy three times a year. We were in Portugal last year, and this year we went to Greece, to Thessaloniki for the first time. It's a cool country and people. They have self-esteem, and at the same time they are unobtrusive, open and friendly. (Lida adds: “In Israel, it’s funny compared to Moscow: when we arrive, we walk down the street, we go into a coffee shop, and they tell us - good morning, how are you as usual? Grandpa, a newspaperman, shouts: “ Good morning!” - and if I go alone, he asks: “Where is Romeo?” We go further, a man runs out of the cafe and offers to urgently make a fresh juice. And here, in our native Serpukhovka, we have been going to the same store for 13 years, saying “hello” to the same saleswoman, and she sits, looks askance and does not answer.

- That is, it is difficult to integrate into the global economy of life?

- "Who the hell are you?" the city asks you. Young people from the wave of emigration of the 90s have grown old and left New York: it is too expensive to live. Embedded in America are only those who left as children. London is an expensive city, but former children, who arrived in the 90s, built in because they fit into the country and the economy. And in Europe, and in Israel, the same thing: a generation of people who arrived small or were born there has grown. Moreover, the parents remained in the circle of Russians, and the children involved in cinema, theater and music are natural Israelis, combining two cultures in themselves. We cannot enter this river. Although in monocultural countries - Germany, Austria, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Montenegro, Hungary, where we have acquaintances, this happens more easily, because there you are just an immigrant. And in New York, Spanish is now the second language, there is a Spanish-language Grammy award and their own radio stations, where there is never black music, blues and rap. That is, there you are not just an immigrant, but you must also show your culture among others. And provincial Israel still has, relatively speaking, its own Russian literature. And in Berlin, the multinational center of electronic music, IT-technologies and theater, you understand that the Germans here are the main thing and everything for the Germans.

— Wow, you're practically a sociologist. Tell me then in general: how did the demand for emigrants' professions change?

- This is interesting, because the art public came to the USA in the 70s, and in the 90s programmers came in large numbers, and half of them moved along Jewish lines. And for the past five years, a lot of people have been going there from all over the former USSR, mainly from Russia, Ukraine and Kazakhstan. And they are completely different - mostly 30-year-old engineers with their families. They are fluent in English and immediately find a job. And it looks depressing to me. Because it's one thing when creative intelligentsia who owns a brush, a bow and a word, are not allowed to do things when they have not had realization for decades and they break off to other countries. And then people from the Russian hinterland, engineers, doctors and economists, who had nothing to do with art, went. A year ago, I played a solo album in London, then a hundred meters from all over the former USSR lined up for autographs. I was blown away: I've never seen anything like this before.

- And now it is impossible to give tours of clubs in Europe?

- The system has changed. Then there was a promotion for a huge number of second-tier teams - Indians, Russians, British, Germans, Hungarians, Bulgarians, anyone. A poster was hung on the fence, and a week later in Berlin we had a full hall for two and a half thousand people. There was a first echelon at stadiums and festivals - Sting, U2 and others, and there was a huge second tier, including even King Crimson who played then in the same clubs as us. Why this system collapsed for our teams, I don’t know. Rather, it is clear that here Russia is down. I remember that after the concert in Paris, the press praised Sounds of Mu And Auction, and here Movie coolly described, because they have a lot of such music. But still the audience went to Movie, Russia was of great interest. And now Russians listen to Russians in Europe, and no matter how fashionable you are, the very word "Russian" has gone into the negative.

Would you stay in Germany? Would take a seatRammstein?

Yes, there are different options. We would easily fit into the local musical life we were loved there. I know that we could easily have stayed when the wall collapsed, after the 1991 coup, we just had to go to the consulate in Hamburg.

- Is it possible to recognize your departed friends, Alexei Khvostenko and Anri Volokhonsky, as the heirs of Kharms and Vvedensky?

“They are the heirs of tradition, not Oberiutism. Khvost and Henri have no horror in their texts, unlike Khvost and especially Vvedensky, who is more gloomy than all Russian literature. And there is the story "The Old Woman" Kharms, also a record of gloominess. When Baryshnikov and Defoe in "The Old Woman" by Robert Wilson in New York uttered the phrase "what could be worse than dead old women - only children", no one laughed. At the exit, people said: yes, this is purely Russian humor. In fact, they do not understand what is humor and where is horror.

- Well, and your reminiscences of the Soviet absurdity of life - are they completely Harmsian?

- Recently I remembered that my father, when he left work in 1986, laughed at me: come on, come on, compose your own songs until the age of 30, you will become a bohemian. And my father worked from 14 to 60 years old and left for work at seven in the morning. I am an early bird, but I woke up at nine, which for him was already bohemian. I remember that I came to my parents' house in the summer, my dad is retired and is repairing something. In the morning he says: you're right, it's cool not to get up at seven, not to go to work, not to show your pass at the entrance.

- Jerzy Grotowski told the actors: take the prison out of your head, teach the audience freedom, even if they scatter in horror. Even if they are crippled by your yoga, they will learn inner freedom.

- That's the correct word - "mangle". Our country is now just twisted. There is no way back, but it is not so easy. Europe went this way for 500 years.

- Moreover, the "teaching of freedom" in the field of arts cancels, first of all, the love of the authorities, popularity among the people and cash.

- Yes, there are a lot of such experimenters - in ballet and music, everywhere. You see, this is all superimposed on how we jumped out of all common paths thanks to 1917. We've been in this hole for a hundred years. We have nothing to do with a huge culture Russian Empire. This is the same attitude that the current Chinese have towards the time of the Yellow Emperor and Taoism. Well, yes, something was great, but it passed. Everyone rushed to make toasts to greatness, remember, film and be proud - but late, with every decade, we are being carried away further and further. Literary critics can no longer say anything about the essence of Tolstoy's "Resurrection", for example. Or what is "The Brothers Karamazov" by Dostoevsky. It is impossible to imagine how powerful these novels were at the time of release. It is amazing how these people were the same as us, but did something that has long been inaccessible to us.

- And how would you three words described the history of art of the XX century?

— It is difficult to compare any current composer with Tchaikovsky. Maybe Shostakovich? Prokofiev, Rachmaninov? No. And not because they are worse. Arvo Pärt is probably the most important composer in the world right now. But Tchaikovsky is the champion in the number of performances, because everyone likes him. Wagner was the John Lennon of his time, but a hundred years have passed and he has disappeared into the rays of Verdi, which everyone likes. Chekhov is also staged in the very small theater peace. "Uncle Vanya" or the comedy "The Seagull" is in every city where there is a theater. New translations of Chekhov appear endlessly, and everyone wants to catch the untranslatable meaning, horror and humor at the same time. Look: when the 20th century began, Meyerhold and Eisenstein, Malevich and Kandinsky became gigantic people. But even they are incomparable with Dostoevsky.

- And Vladimir Ivanovich Martynov with a lot of original theories?

— He is unique and writes for others who are just as unique. A music world it does not subtract anything. In short, we're talking about music in vain, complicated story, there is no correspondence of things of different quality, there are no criteria for comparing Beethoven and some kind of noise music. It is Martynov who says that at the time when the newest cases are being cooked, we cannot determine what is happening.

- In Martynov's "Book of Changes" this is a general idea - no matter how many dice you throw, you will not see modernity.

- And what to say: we can’t evaluate anything in essence, well, we can say some kind of crap like “beautiful” - that’s all. And taste is meaningless for defining art. Vasya Azemsha and I discussed who Chaim Soutine and Modigliani were. Both friends, Italian and Russian, are great. One seeks ugliness in beauty, while the other seeks beauty in ugliness. In St. Petersburg there is an exhibition where there are two portraits of a girl painted by both. These portraits cannot be compared, although both are brilliant. Modigliani portrays a bunch of beauty, but you understand that American expressionism and everyone who is later than Francis Bacon still came out of Soutine. Aestheticization of ugliness by Soutine turned out to be the coolest of all Modigliani. The village Jew Soutine was forbidden to paint portraits of people; This in a strange way made him a giant. Moreover, talents in art do not depend on education at all. The most educated, sophisticated esthete Modigliani, who chose a bohemian lifestyle, and the simple hardworking Soutine, who immediately left his hive upon receiving the first money. Nothing external affects the degree of talent. When Soutine already bought himself precious rings and went to dinner in the salons of princes, his wife stood in the market and sold his engravings.

- Compared to other cultural figures, you read a lot.

- This is all garbage compared to the newspaper "Change". Didn't tell you? When glasnost began, I subscribed to this newspaper, because last page Mikhail Sadchikov wrote about a rock club. There were poems, I read Vvedensky for the first time. I cut out these verses, showed Dimka Ozersky and said: look, there is a St. Petersburg dude Sasha Vvedensky, he thinks, like us, probably our age and is published in Smena, we should get to know him. And one day, at the very peak of perestroika, I open a newspaper and see a gigantic article by some KGB major who writes: why are you happy, do you think your time has come? Do you think this one of yours with a stain is worth something? Naive. You will see that even ten years will not pass before we come to power, because all the activities of our organization are devoted to the study of the history of our people and its characteristic inner features. I read it and forgot. But he shuddered and remembered when Yeltsin pulled out Putin from somewhere and showed everyone. The prophetic newspaper Smena, but it was even worse when we were riding the subway after the 1991 coup, and the old people had already taken out portraits of Lenin. We then came up with the song "Bird". And it felt like everything had changed. And we recorded "Ptitsa" during a tank attack in October 1993, and all hope was gone. Then Anri Volokhonsky worked for Radio Liberty in Munich, arrived, and we met. And in response to my doubts, he said: after all, the gigantic 70-year-old lie, when white was called black, and vice versa, is gone. But now I’m thinking about how easily everything can return, and Ilya Khrzhanovsky thought about this when he launched the giant Dow project, which is where we started the conversation.

Under the cut is my interview with musician Leonid Fedorov. It is musical, highly specialized and completely devoted to a question that interests me: the ratio of spontaneity and artificiality in the process of creating music. In other words, is music born or produced?
The question is not idle. 99% of all the music we hear is produced. And in industrial order. Music is the thinnest, airy fabric of social reality, molded like dumplings, packaged, packaged and sold in supermarkets in the same way. It's not bad. It just is.
This question, in response, gives rise to a host of others. For example, does music need to be done at all? Is it necessary to deal with the design of the song, if it is possible, so to speak, “the song itself”? As a product of spontaneous intuitive experiences of the author. Does the song need an arrangement? Let me explain the context. At one time I was running around with this idea, I quote myself from an old interview from the site:
“... The ideal song exists in pure form. By her own. The song "cry", the song "prayer", the song "laughter". In order to pull it out in a song, in order to convey its ideal content, you must first learn to ignore its form. It doesn't matter what arrangements will be in the song. It doesn't matter how it's made. Moreover, what to sing about is also not important. You can sing about anything and play as you like, but you will not pass a single gram useful information. Most of the songs are done this way, we constantly hear them around us, that there is nothing in them, they do not exist at all. Perhaps there was something there when the author saw the song, but in the further process of composing (composing words, arranging, etc.), the author killed it. No need to "compose", you need to pull out. They've been there for a long time. Therefore, the main thing is not in the question "how", but in the question "why"? Why are you doing it? Why are you singing songs? If you yourself are able to answer this question, then everything is in order ... ".
Now I have a slightly different opinion on this topic, if anyone is interested, I can post later. But, this is not about me, it's about Leonid Fedorov.
The fact that the nature of the song is valuable in itself and does not need arrangements has long been known. Leonid Fedorov is a wonderful melodist, with his unique psychogenic delivery. The idea of ​​the "death of composing", which he eventually came to, seems to me absolutely natural for his work.
"The end of the era of composers" - the concept of the composer Martynov. In many ways, it intersects with the concept of "death of the author" in modern philosophy. General terms- the era of victorious postmodernism, in which we all have honor here. In post-structuralism, as you know, the whole world, the whole universe is a text. In the concept of Martynov-Fedorov, such a text is music. But, there are differences between these two attitudes, moreover, of an ontological nature. In a conversation with Fedorov, I did not delve into this topic. It was important for me to get to know him first. principled position. He made it convincing.
This piece of the interview was taken before Fedorov's concert at the Podzemka club in Rostov, a week ago. A full-length interview, with other topics not related to this one, will be published in the February issue of the magazine "Who is the Chief".

"MAKING MUSIC KILLS MUSIC".

Tretyakov: - The other day you have a new album "Beauty". Where does this name come from?
Fedorov: - We recorded this album with Vladimir Volkov. This is like the final part of our trilogy "Tayal" and "Bezonders". Why Beauty? Well, probably because the music is beautiful.
T: - And in some way it is fundamentally different from previous works? From the same "Bezonders" to the verses of Vvedensky?
F: - There is no poetry in it at all (smiles).
T: - Absolutely?
F: Yes (smiles). There are texts. They were written by Andrey Smurov from Amsterdam and Artur Molev from St. Petersburg. Authors of the song "Bin Laden". But, this is not poetry, this is “anti-poetry”. Need to listen. It’s hard for me to say right away what is fundamentally new there. I try to do something new with every record. There are not many samples, more live music. This is not possible to perform live. At least for me alone. So we still do not yet imagine how all this will look live.
T: - After the death of the Tail, you somehow dropped out of participating in it creative heritage? I know that a tribute to his songs was planned, will you participate in it?
F: I don't know. I want to make an album based not on his songs, which everyone knows, but on his later poems, absolutely wonderful. Tail has a book "Verpa". I have an idea to make an album based on this book. I want it to turn out completely different, not for anyone similar tail. I think, over time, we will realize this idea.
T: - A lot of talk about the album recorded in America. Featuring Marc Ribot, John Medeski of MEDESKI, MARTIN & WOOD, trumpeter Frank London of The Klezmatics, saxophonist Ned Rothenberg. After all, these are all the main musicians of the world over the past ten years.
F: It's all right. The album was recorded in New York. We are lucky to have such wonderful musicians playing with us.
T: - Is the music entirely improvisational, or are the songs pre-written?
F: - The songs were invented in advance, some of them were even played before at concerts. But, the whole thing was written spontaneously, right off the bat.
T: - Didn't Marc Ribot play with the keys to the apartment, like on the records of Tom Waits?.
F: - I don't know (smiles). I played the guitar and sang, and Ribot, by the way, also played the guitar. The album is currently in the mixing stage. How all this will be called, I do not know yet. There is an idea to invite all these musicians to play with us at the presentation in Russia. To make people happy.
T: - Leonid, many people who are familiar with your work only from the Auktyon group are perplexed - why your muse has changed so much. When did this happen and what caused it?
F: - I can say this, I'm trying now to invent as little as possible. These things happen on their own. They either happen or they don't. At some point, it was during the recording of the album "Bird", I realized that I was no longer satisfied with some kind of given, certainty in music. I don't like the specifics. I am most pleased with such “seemingly random” things, in quotation marks, because in fact there is nothing random.
T: That's what I wanted to talk to you about.
F: Here's the deal. All these years I had my own interest - I wanted my music to please, first of all, myself. And learning from my own experience, I came to the conclusion that the less I think about what my music should be, the more interesting it will be for me. Now I'm trying to come up with tricks that would give as much freedom as possible to the people who play with me. So that my music could surprise and delight me. Therefore, on the one hand, my things are becoming more and more primitive, and on the other hand, the possibilities of music are expanding.
T: Are the songs becoming more open to interpretation?
F: Yes, exactly. Their form becomes completely open. Symphonic, or chamber - it doesn't matter. Music, in my opinion, initially, as an idea, should not carry anything superfluous, it is spontaneous. It is only later in the process of making music that you start to invent something, bring it in. And it turns out false. The idea expressed is a lie. When you start making music, it starts to lose its original magical properties. Becomes false.
T: - First of all, does she begin to deceive you personally?
F: Yes. I have been going to this for a long time. For a long time I could not formulate all this for myself. Before, I could not understand why? Why, for example, do I not like my song? We've been working on the song for so long and I don't like it. But just in the process of making a song, we lost its original properties. Lost the most important thing - the original argument of the song. Therefore, the concept of arrangement has been lost for me for ten years now. I don't do arrangements anymore, I don't like them. Moreover, I believe that arrangements are harmful. They are detrimental to music. Making music kills music.
T: - But it is precisely in the process of such production of music that the composer's activity lies?
F: - Although I love and respect many brilliant composers of those who were and those who may still be born and live, I, however, believe that composing is no longer a path. There are, for example, Bach, Beethoven, and there are pygmies. Both of them write music. Only the classics write in their own way, and the pygmies rub their priests against each other and music also comes out. In fact, the music of the classics and the pygmies, both of them are absolutely comparable. In this case, the whole meaning of composing is lost. For what? I don't believe in composing anymore.
T: - This is exactly what Martynov called "the end of the era of composers."
F: - And actually said exactly. Therefore, Martynov and I are now working together.
T: - In my opinion, such an interpretation of music is very characteristic of Eastern philosophy, with its purely contemplative intuitive approach to creativity.
F: I don't know. The East has its own way, we have our own way, I think.
T: - It's just that they talk a lot about these topics, and John Cage united all such interpretations. I think Martynov should love his music.
F: - I don't know, Martynov loves baroque music. Volkov too. It's not about who loves what. Everyone can reach this if there is a need. Music is one of the few arts that reflects the surrounding reality. What is the reality of what is happening around - such is the music. I'm only talking about adequate music here. Bach, Beethoven are adequate composers. There is inadequate music that does not reflect anything.
T: Give me an example.
F: - Any music that is now rushing from everywhere. All these "tattoos" and "nana" are not adequate music. The music that attacks us from everywhere is not adequate.
T: - And for example, Japanese "noise"? Is he adequate? The Ruinse, or is it Otomo Yoshihido?
F: - There is adequate music, there is not adequate, but there is still music of the future. Otomo Yoshihido is now my favorite musician. The Japanese are more than anyone else in the world focused on the future. I remember going to his concert. He came to Moscow, to the Dom club. My wife and I came to his concert and just lay on the floor. We were lying on the floor because I had never heard anything like it before. And the sound! Wherever you are in the hall, his music is such that when you hear it, it is as if you are sitting in headphones. Absolutely physical feeling that you do not listen to music with your ears, but it is in your head. I have never experienced this before or after. Never. Moreover, it is so powerful that, compared to Yoshihido, all the music that exists in the world is just beeping.
G: - I have a feeling that his music doesn't move at all. It seems to be concentrated in one point. Like a tree, it just grows from one place and that's it. Music of absolute peace.
F: - And the music should be at rest. It's not even that. The Japanese are a nation focused on the future, and in music they are again ahead of everyone because their music absolutely adequately reflects modern reality. But Yoshihido's music is already there, in the future. Can't reach her at all.
T: - Have you ever encountered an aesthetic freebie in such an approach?
F: - Such musicians cannot have any freebies. It depends on the level of the musician. I can tell such a story, Vladimir Volkov was once at the concert of Serge Ginzburg. As it turned out later, he was on one of his recent concerts. Well, chanson is a tavern and a tavern, thought Volodya. At that time he still knew English poorly, and Ginzburg led a concert in English. Ginzburg did not sing anything, did not play anything. He just talked and that's it. I did not understand anything, - says Volodya, - but for two hours I could not take my eyes off the stage. There was a feeling that this man was singing to me for two hours beautiful blues.
Now that's magic! If this is a master, then it doesn't matter what he will do. If the master is on, he cannot play badly. A freebie can only happen if you're turned off. And there are truly great masters, they do not allow freebies at all. They cannot afford it. Volkov himself is the same. When we wrote with him for the first time. We wrote, we wrote. Looks like they recorded all the songs. And then they began to write them down. And Volkov played in a new way every time, in each double he not only played well, but completely rethought everything. And I was just stunned by this approach. For example, I listen to all of his eight track options. And I understand that I can’t choose the one I need for recording. They are all so good. There is not a single extra note in them! And I just went crazy at first. I couldn't figure out what to do with all this? How to be? Such people simply cannot afford a freebie. They either play or they don't. But, no matter what they play, they turn on and that's it.
T: - But, there are unsuccessful concerts?
F: - Everyone has them if a person for some reason did not turn on.
T: - And where does the musician turn on? In the noosphere of Vernadsky? In some information space?
F: To the music.
T: What do you mean "to the music"? Does music exist on its own, or does the author include himself?
F: No, nothing like that. Not in itself, but in specific music. It's not about the exchange of energies, people like to talk about it often, nothing like that. Anything can be reduced to energy exchange. Music happens at a certain point in time. If you match it, in fact, if you are a musician, you turn on. An artist may not understand something, then he simply will not turn on, will not participate and that's it. Music and musicians may not be suitable for each other. Anything happens.
T: - I wish you a normal connection today.
F: Thank you too.

Inna Denisova

INNA DENISOVA talked to the musician and composer about poetry, Pussy Riot, brilliant songs and the end of Russia

Yesterday, in preparation for the interview, I watched Balabanov's film "I also want to." In it, the apocalypse comes to the song "Head-foot".

- (Laughs.) It's just a song. It can be turned around... (thinks.) The song came up with a long time - and God bless her. Music is one of the colors: if there were a film about the everyday life of the police, it would sound differently. And then - well, yes, aggravated everything with this song a little.

- Balabanov - he filmed about the end of the world?

And what is the light here? Trier shoots about the end of the world: everything is global there, the images are collective. I would say that Balabanov filmed about the end of our country. The specific place is indicated, the characters are specific.

My feeling is that the country is falling apart. Of course, it has been falling apart for a long time, a hundred years already. I once read interesting article: general of the General Staff, military historian, deduced the formula for the life of the state - when there is a peak, recession and collapse. In Russia, according to this formula, by 2020 there will be a complete collapse. He took into account all aspects, including cultural ones. The peak of the development of Russian culture came at the end of the 19th century. "Crime and Punishment", "War and Peace": literature has gone beyond national, has become global. A sign of decline is the narrowing of topics, for example, to the framework of the family: "Brother", "Brother-2". The last links are broken. Everything became small. Everything is ironic. If we talk about the apocalypse - well, yes, probably, that's what it looks like.

There was an illusion in 1991 that everything would be fine. I then asked Henri Volokhonsky: “Henri, what is happening?” He replied: "The global lie is over." But it turned out that he was wrong and nothing ended.

- But in November of this year, people again took to the streets to say “no” to global lies?

And the result? Today's "revolutionaries" are terribly similar to mediocre guys from the Komsomol detachments. They look the same. The rhetoric is the same. They stopped speaking human language and give out texts that I heard from the Komsomol leaders in my youth. Why do I need all this?

- Well, something must be done.

I don't know, I don't do politics. I just think that now it is pointless to go to rallies.

Who can - he will leave here. From a country where people don't know where they come from. Recently there was a poll - "how many generations of your ancestors do you know." It turned out that even great-grandfathers know less than three percent of the population! For example, my father told me the truth about my grandfather's death three years before his death, in 1993. I thought that my grandfather died in Finnish. It turned out not a damn thing to Finnish and did not die. Grandfather was a very good pilot, and during the war he was hanged on a denunciation. And my father was afraid all his life: we began to travel abroad, we filled out questionnaires with the column “repressed relatives”. I put "don't have", and no one checked. So I don’t think that now, for example, life is worse than in the late 70s. For me, at least for sure. The early 80s were dark. In general, in my opinion, we rolled and rolled. Looks like the end.

- Pro Pussy Riot wanted to ask. Do you think they are your colleagues? Still a punk band.

Well, I don’t know ... I don’t see anything musical there, to be honest. There would still be good songs - but in comparison with them, Letov is Mozart. (Thinks.) Of course, we also freaked out at one time. But they got an action without logic, and most importantly - without a result.

- And what is an example of a successful punk action?

Well, look here: Sex Pistols forbidden to sing a song "God Save the Queen". What are people doing? They take off the ship and float along the river past Buckingham Palace, singing it. Because the laws apply only on land, and on the water - no longer. They didn't break anything. And now it was a great move and real punk rock: simple, elegant, fun and cool. And here something what? How do I feel about punk prayer? With contempt. Only because not one of the important tasks - to arrange a brilliant punk performance or an effective political act - has been solved.

Today's "revolutionaries" are terribly similar to mediocre guys from the Komsomol detachments.

It turned out awesome. And I can't understand why they did it. If for the sake of themselves and their glory, then they went to FIG. If for the sake of people, then people have done worse. Believers quarreled with unbelievers. Putin - an extra hundred thousand: why are some boogers touching our church here. Because for most people their actions are illogical and unjustified. And Putin's actions are logical and justified. What is the purpose of this action? Absolutely pro-Putin.

- And you, as a believer, was it unpleasant?

Personally, this dance did not hurt me in any way: it sincerely seems to me that God will not be upset by someone's dances, and I am not upset. And the accusations of the patriarch are nothing to me. That is, even if all my liberal friends rush in unison to convince me that the ROC is bad, it still won't work. Because I know that faith is good. There were people smarter than me who found in this a source of pure happiness. Pascal, for example. And the patriarch - well, well ... If he lies, then let him lie. Does he kiss Putin's hands? Yes, let him kiss: but what about me? Do I have my own shortcomings? To begin with, it’s not bad to collect grains of oneself, so that later it would not be a shame that life was lived meaninglessly.

And how do you feel about the fact that cultural figures are now required to have political overtones? Shevchuk is good, ours. Lagutenko is bad, he didn't wear a T-shirt. Zemfira is bad, she is not interested in politics.

Well Yura is like that. He's always been like that. Lagutenko is not Shevchuk, a different person. To condemn a person for being different? So I say - nothing has changed in 70 years. I have seen enough of all this in the Komsomol: either you are with us, or you are a traitor and against us. He came without a pioneer tie - a traitor to the Motherland. Even the rhetoric is the same, accusatory.

- Has the song “Freedom” by Shevchuk become a symbol of the times?

I think so: my beloved Beatles had two bad songs. McCartney had one - "Give Ireland to the Irish", and the other Lennon - "Give Peace a Chance", also, in my opinion, so-so song.

- Do you think that an artist and musician does not need to go into politics?

Everyone chooses for himself. I don't like frames. At all. Moreover - I do not like to repeat the situation. Even a good one, which once led to something, to the creation of some things. I believe that you cannot step into the same river twice. Any limitation makes me sad. Therefore, for example, I do not do film music. The feeling of inner freedom is very important to me.

- And how does it combine with the feeling of external lack of freedom?

But there was no freedom. There was a moment in 1991 - when the coup began and quickly ended - I remember this strange feeling very well. External freedom is an illusion. If you have something inside, it will be with you. No - it won't happen at all. Any mass performance always scared me. As Volkov says (Vladimir Volkov, double bassist and longtime partner of Fedorov. - Ed.), one of the names of the devil is legion. I am essentially an individualist. The crowd restricts freedom. As soon as you stand shoulder to shoulder with people, where “you” are at this moment is not clear.

A hundred years ago, the twelfth year was wonderful: the Jack of Diamonds held debates about cubism, Mayakovsky and Kruchenykh began, the futurist manifesto “Slapping Public Taste” appeared. Is there any way to compare times?

All of the above is easier to compare with the 90s. Today, I don't think so. Here is the member Pussy Riot writes: "We are the successors of the OBERIU case." (Laughs.) I saw it and thought - Oh my God! This is for me (and he is just delighted) Boris Viktorov, Vvedensky's stepson, - we became friends with him recently, a very cool uncle - he sent an SMS message. "Look, it's kind of cool." I do not argue - he believes, and for God's sake. But there are nuances. Vvedensky was a very religious person. Very truthful. Viktorov told how Vvedensky once met Marshak on Nevsky. “I met - and told him everything I think about him. - And what did you say to him, Alexander Ivanovich? - Said he was a scoundrel. What about Marshak? - And what about Marshak? He already knows about it." In a tram, he could slap a man who swore obscenities: he could not stand obscenities in principle, such was the attitude towards the language. Therefore, when she equates herself with Vvedensky, she must understand what level a person was. A deeply religious person who has not committed a single dubious act. In one of the first manifestos of OBERIU, there was “not a word against God,” which fundamentally distinguished them from the futurists. They clearly understood the limits of what was permitted.

- And you have Vvedensky - favorite poet?

Well, what does favorite mean - the most important, probably. In general, I treated poetry rather strangely, calmly, but then it suddenly coincided. Vvedensky was very clear. I even said to [composer Vladimir] Martynov: “I have the feeling that he wrote for me.” I can sing any of his texts, I understand everything, no need to translate. I won’t sing Kharms: he puts a lot of personal into his texts. Druskin (Yakov Semenovich Druskin is a Russian philosopher, thanks to whom many works of "plane trees" and Oberiuts were published. - Ed.), who loved music, compared Vvedensky with Schoenberg, and Kharms with Webern. And he spoke about the coldness and detachment of Vvedensky and the involvement of Kharms. Vvedensky is aloof, and I like it wildly, because the colors of the music give the words any mood. I use it text like musical instrument, I'm not trying to add additional coloring to the text. The emotion here is hidden, inside. Therefore, you can complete the emotion yourself. Or don't do it, it doesn't matter.

The most outstanding theater I have seen in my life is the group Led Zeppelin: people just play and sing.

- Did you make the album "Spring" in a fit of love for Vvedensky?

Well, I don't even know how I did it. Vovka [Volkov] didn’t come, he was busy, I wanted to do everything faster, for some reason I didn’t want music, and at that moment I realized that I could do without music. At all. Focus on the text, which will be a theater in itself.

In fact, it turned out reading poetry. Best Lyrics Vvedensky.

- A to contemporary poets how do you feel?

Unfortunately, I know little - somehow nothing caught on yet.

- Here are the names from the poster of the "Polytheater": Linor Goralik, Vera Pavlova ...

-(interrupting) Women's poetry I'm not interested at all. Never interested. Neither Akhmatova nor Tsvetaeva. It's all human and emotional. From the point of view of some things - even stupid, in my opinion. Mandelstam is too serious for me. It seems to me that there are two poles: either you are serious, like Khlebnikov (but then you should be like Khlebnikov, who has the universe behind every word), or you are not serious at all. “We live without feeling the country under us” - a thing that is very tied to the historical context, momentary. And with Vvedensky everything is global. There is neither happiness nor sorrow. You can perceive this as a terrible darkness, but, in my opinion, this is just a statement of the fact of existence. Martynov, for example, believes that Russian literature ended at Vvedensky. After Vvedensky, it became pointless to engage in literature. Even Brodsky: his texts, bypassing the personality, are not at all close to me. When he reads, it turns out wonderful theatrical performance. A virtuoso technique minus important things that are not affected at all. And Vvedensky always has these things. There is an inward appeal. He always talks to you like God talks to a child. Not trying to confuse you, on the contrary, trying to free your brain. Now things are getting more complicated again. The same Prigov, for example, gives specific situation attached to something - and for me it immediately decreases. The power of being leaves the language, I do not see it - but I see, at best, successful phrases. Actually, I am not a connoisseur, not a connoisseur and not a lover of poetry - but I feel the difference. If I were a poet myself, I would perceive texts on a different level. And so I need the text as an instrument to sing it. The most brilliant song, in my opinion, should be completely devoid of poetry. Like Russian folk songs. Where there is no poetry, but there is a statement of the truth of life.

- And from our time, who will remain?

In the late 90s, all the most interesting things were ... Of the poets - probably Khvost. In the 2000s, I saw three performances by Anatoly Vasiliev, in my opinion, absolutely outstanding - and today's new drama I can not. Theater "Derevo" - became one of the the best theaters Germany, in Russia would not have survived absolutely. In general, the most outstanding theater that I have seen in my life is the group Led Zeppelin: people just play and sing.

Martinov, of course! I met him in 2000. And his books are wonderful, and the music. He'll probably stay here. Terry Gilliam. Lars von Trier.

- And here you are.

We? We got together and played as best we could - we just had fun. I don't take my own work seriously. Why should there be anything at all? From our time with you, maybe nothing will remain. Khlebnikov was the pinnacle of evolution. What are we? We who do not remember kinship? Khvost, for example, knew Akhmatova, he and Brodsky were in the same company. And who are we anyway? We are at the end of time. Still on the edge. In the late 80s, there was still some feeling that someone needed us - when we pompously ended up in France, where everyone was interested in Russia and Gorbachev, and it seemed that we meant something, that we were nuggets, - and now - well, what to talk about? Pussy Riot Here is the award. The circle to which they belong is questionable to me. But maybe I don't understand something? What I want to see today are things devoid of pathos. Because any pathos aimed at something "universal" is false. Time is such a lie. But any subtle splash of individuality can be amazing.

Leonid Fedorov:​​​​
"We need to ban bad taste"

The leader of the "Auktyon" group about why we live in a brilliant time, what is considered art and where did the pathos go

W→O→S You will now give solo concert. How is this different from auction performances?

I don’t know about the audience - I’m used to not seeing anyone from the stage. And for myself there is a difference, of course. One is calmer, less fuss. When there are a lot of people on the stage, you always try to hear someone other than yourself.

W→O→S But it's hard not to hear the audience.

Well, I don’t know who is waiting for what, and then, I’m not very interested in it. I don’t have such a direct Artist Artistovich inside me. Let them wait for The Bird and Doroga, and maybe I'd better drag out Khlebnikov for ten minutes, che. I want myself to feel good. To be ashamed later.

W→O→S Have you been ashamed?

It used to be, how! It's embarrassing just when you're trying to please. So it is better to think about yourself, to understand what you need.

W→O→S That's why you don't fit into any of the usual formats...

I can't stand the word format. There are no formats, there is only what you choose for yourself. Previously, there was a radio station SNC in Moscow, on which, for example, they played 20-minute compositions of the Can group - it’s very easy, what’s there? In America there are now a lot of small university radio stations - in Berkeley, for example, in San Francisco. They fuck up tracks that even I don't know what to call it. It all depends on the desire, and if people only want to drive bullshit ... I don't mind, but there is nothing else besides this. Here Garkusha told me that there are about five hundred groups in St. Petersburg now. Five hundred! I'm not saying that they are all brilliant, but I'm sure that among these five hundred there will be a dozen good ones. Where are they? What format do they fit? For example, my friend Vladimir Ivanovich Martynov believes that if a composition lasts less than ten minutes, it's even ridiculous to talk about it. And we are taught to listen to three-minute tracks, also crookedly cut and made clumsily, with clichés of a hundred years ago. And this is not only our misfortune - this is a universal history.

W→O→S Okay, out of these 500 bands, have you heard anything yourself?

Unfortunately, not so much, and even less I liked it. Here, for example, in Moscow there is an excellent group "Syncopized Silence", such a strange one. In general, I'm more Western groups. I used to listen to ours a little before, because I still like music more, and the same Russian rock had little to do with music. And I don’t see any poetry in it, to be honest. Well, except for the Yankee, and Bashlachev. And everything else is closer to the bard theme. Now, probably, there is something interesting, but I'm not specifically looking for anything. I am an ordinary consumer, and in general I am more concerned about the early baroque in music now.

There are no formats, there is only what you choose for yourself.

I don't like all this museum bullshit - I always liked to somehow get out of my time.

1. " strange games»
The team from the Leningrad Polytechnic University was very different from the rock club adherents new wave- rollicking ska and rhythm and reggae were atypical for the local swamps. Participants of the "Strange Games" founded three more teams: "AVIA", "Games" and in the late 90s - electronic "Deadushki".

Then

Now

2. "Night Avenue"
One of the innovative electronic industrial projects in the USSR. The group survived the breakup and death of its co-founder, but continues to record records and perform.

Then

Now

W→O→S What are your current interests in poetry? Russian avant-garde

The word “avant-garde” is also something… Although it suits Khlebnikov very well. He pushes forward even now. Simply because there was no one equal in strength. And none Nobel Prizes, which continue to give for some reason, do not solve anything. Kharms said that there are writers who will be called great and will defend dissertations on them, and there are those who push literature. In Khlebnikov, in Vvedensky I feel some kind of strong energy that gives me the opportunity to develop. There is something good inside of me. Evil, which is important, appears too.

W→O→S What do Vvedensky and Khlebnikov have that others don't have?

Vvedensky and Khlebnikov are two people who managed to push their personality aside. For all the emotionality in their poems, there is a mighty coldness. Here Akhmatova can only be read in a certain way, and not everyone can do it. But Khlebnikov can be read by everyone, and he does not get worse from this. Because here the words are not stupid: they do not contain all that of which human relations are built. Surely in all Akhmatov's "Oh, he fell out of love with me" and "Oh, I dropped my glove" there is also something, but I don’t feel it, because all this is ridiculous for me.

3. "Sounds of Mu"
The project of the eccentric Scandinavian translator Petr Mamonov became famous thanks to the otherworldly charisma of the leader and the ability to gather all the figures of the underground scene of that time in one room. Mamonov had long quarreled with his musicians and hit the theater and Orthodoxy.

Then

Now

4. Jungle
The least revered now group of the Leningrad rock club. Thanks to the eternal search in the range from post-punk to Robert Fripp and the technical zaum in the spirit of King Crimson, the team went on tour abroad at the forefront. After cooperation with Aquarium and Kuryokhin and perturbations in the composition, it broke up in 1990.

Then

Now:

not functioning

5. Nicolaus Copernicus
Postmodernist Yuri Orlov's team existed in relative isolation from the processes of Russian rock and recorded many psychedelic opuses. For example, music from the Rodina magnetic album of 1986 was set to verses from a collection prepared for the 60th anniversary of the USSR. After breaking up in 1993, in 2005 the group resumed activities with a new line-up.

I commanded to be the wing of the raven
And dryly remarked to the sky: “Be kind, die!”
And when I felt like it later,
I, in order to laugh more and more,
The whole race of people broke like a box of matches,
And he began to read poetry.
There was a globe
Perfectly captured by the paw of a madman.
- Follow me!
There is nothing to fear!

Now:

Then

"War in a Mousetrap", Velimir Khlebnikov

6. Collegiate Assessor
The Kiev group appeared on the wave of the psychedelic renaissance of the late 80s and gave out what can be called a specific Soviet sound. Formally, the team did not stop its activities: the last recordings date back to the early 2000s.

W→O→S Funny or boring?

Both. If there was “Oh, they cut off my head,” it would be at least scary. A most of poetry is about dropping gloves. And when it's time to cut the head, Vvedensky or Kharms appear. In my opinion, emotions should be as intense as possible or they should not be at all.

W→O→S But for many, "Oh, I dropped the glove" remains the most intense emotion.

We live in a brilliant time with a completely different information background. After I, for example, saw on the Internet how soldiers play football with their heads, try telling me about the dropped glove. Why should I read these verses? Why are you sculpting a humpback for me here - every day I can see something that even our fathers never dreamed of! And those guys had their own life - but I don't care about it! I don't like all this museum bullshit - I always liked to somehow get out of my time.

W→O→S Well museum bullshit has always existed for the average reader and viewer.

Lidochka (wife. - W → O → S) and I once went to the Russian Museum for an exhibition. And there was a crazy picture of Filonov, remember where he sits, she, the baby, and in the foreground the rooster is so chic. And we rested so admiringly, and next to each other he says: “Well, what is it, look better” - and points to a copy from mannered Italian pictures, where is the valley, and Jesus is walking along it. And the exhibition was called something like "Christianity in Russian Painting." Well, clearly, Christianity means Jesus, painting means nature. Damn it, next to it is a masterpiece that doesn’t look like anything at all, you can look at it for hours! But people are too lazy to open their eyes, and they consider a postcard an art. And there are a lot of them. Here is a table, but if it is without a tablecloth, it is already a bad table for them.

Then

Now:

contemporary video recordings open access No.

"Peasant Family"
Pavel Filonov
1914

W→O→S You admire the globality of Vvedensky, but at the same time you have said more than once that now you need to avoid any pathos.

And there is no more pathos. Throughout the 20th century, the very possibility of pathos was methodically destroyed. It's not just about dictatorships and world wars. Let's say there has never been anything more pretentious than death, right? And now the feeling of the sacredness of death is lost - there is nothing more ordinary than murder: he went into the front door, stabbed him with a knife, took a mobile phone and ran away. Heroic pathos is also impossible, because for the first time in many centuries, not those who fight, but the civilian population, die in wars in the first place.

W→O→S What about music?

Direct pathos in its purest form can no longer be issued. We already know something worse. This was well understood by this one, like him, who filmed "Melancholia" ... Trier. He distills this pathos into a wild, wild grotesque. "Melancholy" is one of the most compelling things I've ever seen. And if we talk about some “Ring of the Nibelungs” by our standards, then from the point of view of dramaturgy, this is not at all. Boring and vulgar, in my opinion.

W→O→S What about your music?

The fear of plunging into pathos actually leads to the fact that you try to bring it down everywhere, everywhere you start to be ironic. The music of "Auktyon" suggests both pathos and reflection on it. And so it always remains unfinished for me. As with the album "Girls sing", which I still wanted to make more direct.

W → O → S And despite the feeling of incompleteness, for a long time you did not learn how to cut something.

Well, no, tortured stories immediately give themselves away, and then it’s terrible for them how insulting it is. So at some point I decided that I would do everything spontaneously. And then, I record an album and never listen to it again. Because music exists now and never again. Well, since such a record came out, what to do, this will be. Here again, there is no pathos: we are not doing an immutable Thing. To be honest, I am afraid of such a path: something was born to me, then I did it, and now there is such a faceted, damn it, decanter. Then the question arises: “What next? All?" This is what is called a creative dead end.

W→O→S Do you like how your music sounds in films? Balabanov, for example?

No. At Balabanov's I last movie I just liked the way he put "Head and Foot", but this is the only example. As for the rest, I think it could be any other. Cinema is a subjective thing. Especially in the case of Balabanov. That's how he saw, that's how he heard, well, for God's sake.

W→O→S Do you regret not being able to shoot with him?

I'm happy I couldn't, to be honest. I never aspired to act in films. This is what Garkusha loves.

W→O→S You rarely give interviews, so apparently it is customary to ask you about current social and political events. I don’t want to analyze in detail the fight against Americans, gays and obscenities. Just curious: do you really have any civil position on all these issues?

All this is some kind of nonsense. In my opinion, these things are discussed only in order to confuse people, move them away from some other things. Freedom, for example, elementary. No one even remembers that we have such a thing as registration. Yeltsin also said that it should be abolished, that it would not climb into any gates. Or here is what Edichka Limonov wrote about: while all this nonsense is being procrastinated, they passed a law according to which a person who was a member of any so-called extremist organization has no right to participate in political life. This has not happened in Europe since Hitler. Well, that is really here we are the first after the Nazis. They care, and I care about bad taste. It must be banned. Here Saakashvili, for example, at one time forbade playing thugs in all taverns - this, I think, is an awesome law.

* Thanks to the Masterskaya club for their help in conducting the interview.

Photo: Megaq, entrance photo - Vladimir Lavrischev/www.leonidfedorov.ru

"Not a single raven from all sides!" - we yelled at Fedorov's concerts for the past ten years, and now the song “Head and Leg” can be yelled at any rally: “And I, it seems, can’t be silent, the skin on my shoulders bursts from silence. I forget familiar names. Feeling under turns into feeling on!” Only this will no longer be a rally, and the truth is that Leonid Fedorov is an incredibly apolitical person. Home. He writes his terrible songs to the words of Ozersky, Vvedensky and Khlebnikov at home, and we talk in the kitchen.

Is today Thursday a fish day or are you fasting?

(Lida, wife and producer of Fedorov, takes out various fish from the refrigerator and oven - fried, steamed, salted).

We are doing such a diet, the second time already. The first day - only buckwheat porridge, the second - only boiled chicken, the third day - kefir or okroshka. Without bread, vegetables are possible. The fourth day is fish, but for some reason today is Monday. You won’t believe it - every day a kilogram of weight goes somewhere. The fifth day is vegetables, the sixth is a holiday, that is, fruits. It’s good in the morning, in anticipation: oh, you think, chicken, but by the evening you can’t look at this chicken, complete disgust. And the next morning you expect porridge like manna from heaven. Very strange sensations from food, you know?

What are you reading now?

I was reading a biography of Michelangelo, and it struck me that with his great wealth he lived always on wine, cheese, bread and olives. This is what I mean by diet. You can still sit on bread and cheese for a week, but for the rest of your life - it's impossible to imagine. Vasari writes that the already very old Michelangelo, having been engaged in the Vatican Cathedral, having spent many years on mosaics, in the end took and smashed everything with a hammer. Was a normal guy.

We read Martynov with Lida as soon as he writes something new. It is impossible not to agree with him that there is a stratification and delimitation of people in circles and parties, even within the same profession. We went to Silvestrov's 70th birthday at the Rachmaninov Hall, and I realized that this is a very narrow circle, a party where everyone has known each other for a long time. There are many different circles in music. And in the movies you can't count them. There is no single cultural space, communication, air is not enough. Everything has been replaced by a TV or a bunch of glossy magazines. Understand? Where can different people gather? Nowhere. The last in music who held together perfectly different people, was Kuryokhin. At some point, he managed to include everyone in his process. The same inclusion, but on a global scale, was made by the Beatles. Millions took up guitars, myself included. They still lived in a common cultural layer for all, in this common air it didn’t matter who did what - classical, jazz, whatever. And now, the funny thing is, they are not at all interested in what is happening in the neighboring musical party. Free jazz players don't fit in with populists, there is no cooperation.

Kuryokhin was the last in music who kept completely different people together. At some point, he managed to include everyone in his process. The same inclusion, but on a global scale, was made by the Beatles

When they still sang in the villages, they were free jazz in its purest form, every day grandmothers pulled a new note, new drawing melodies were given out depending on the weather and mood. And now you will find such only at your concerts.

I read about Mozart and Beethoven that they didn't use sheet music, they constantly improvised, at all performances. What we have left in the notes are all the pale imprints of their rampage. A pianist played in the first part, and Beethoven himself came out in the second part and improvised. The notes meant nothing to them. Now you can record everything, record a concert, but then every day everything was new. If we consider their notes to be precious, then it is impossible to imagine their playing. Cool guys.

Well, after all, keeping silent about you and Auktyon, what really struck you in that legendary music from the times of the Leningrad Rock Club when you started?

Bashlachev's apartment. When they let me listen to his cassette, it didn’t seem to me at all. But the concert... I remember that feeling. As if from under the ground, from under his chair, a column of flame and unearthly fury beat. Physiological sensation of a clot of energy. Half an hour of a hurricane - words and three chords are not important - and you see a simple kid with fixes and blood on his hands. Absolutely amazing, like no other energy. Vysotsky was still boring us with some thoughts, but here there is no thought. It was a squall and an earthquake. And since then, I have never felt anything like this, with anyone. No, there were many concerts where some rockers rocked the hall, but I understood that this was the sound. But Bashlachev did not have a word that struck me, not a sound. There was a stream, fiery lava, gap-grass. And then I watched the video - no feeling, just remembering the presence at that concert. I still don't understand how this is possible.

I once had a sound device examined my health. Clicks clearly localized in the head come from the stereo headphones, and the computer with the system feedback according to the reaction of the brain to thousands of clicks in the entire volume of the head, he makes a diagnosis. So, the buzz from this electronic diagnostic "music" greatly exceeded all the pleasure that I once received from the German "Tangerine Dream". Do you think electronics will replace live instruments?

Not sure. Rather stay live music. They are most likely different genres. You see, it's like poetry - in any case, they will exist in literature. The impact of these musics is different, they have different spaces. It's like comparing a book with an electronic reader, you always want to turn the paper in your hands more than the reader. But you can no longer go anywhere, extract all the sounds and music from the computer, download books. In Google" museum program, so I spent three hours yesterday at the Uffizi without getting up from my chair.

I barely pulled him out of there, - says Lida, - my head was already spinning to look at the pictures, but he still won’t come off, he breaks his eyes.

Do you go to real museums of the world together?

We love it, yes. It was not always like this, but about ten years ago canvases and paints suddenly pulled us. In January we were in Madrid Prado.

Do you go to the theatre? At the presentation of the Wolfgang album at the Central House of Artists, you arranged a pure theater with a dozen ancient Mosfilm chairs and half a dozen ancient wooden radios, not to mention Vika Tolstoganova on stage and a cartoon on the screen.

Rarely. The last time we went to see Martynov's performance at the Boyakov Theater. Here my great-grandfather was absolutely theater man, People's Artist Monakhov, founder of the BDT and its superstar. In Alexei Tolstoy's "Walking Through the Torments" young ladies run to Monakhov. In the cinema, he is remembered for the role of the landowner Troekurov in Dubrovsky. At the age of sixty-three, in 1937, he married a young, seventeen-year-old beauty, and she poisoned him. Some people think that the NKVD could not do without it. Like this luxurious life. He was a friend of Benois and Gorky. (“You don’t have to follow in his footsteps,” Lida remarks.) He started with verses, and ended up with Don Carlos in Alexandrinka, he simply became a great artist. True, under Stalin, after 1929, all his roles dried up and began to give away clerical work. Great-grandfather for me and theater, and its history. And when I saw him young in the photo in my memoirs, I was stunned - the spitting image of my father. The language and style of his memoirs are exactly what I would write myself. Moreover, the whole situation and people are very similar to current affairs. It's like nothing changes.

Bashlachev did not have a word that struck me, not a sound. There was a stream, fiery lava, gap-grass

I look at the photo of your great-grandfather and see you as part of the coupletists of the early "Auktyon".

I say: nothing changes. Here is a story about Chaliapin. One fashionable actress refused to perform at the Monakhov Theater, and the tickets were all sold out. In order not to go broke, Monakhov invited Chaliapin, who said: "If you drink with me, I will sing for free." And Monakhov says: “I can’t, the ulcer.” However, they still drank, but the super bass did not appear on the stage, because the great-grandfather offered to go to the girls instead of saving the box office.

How many times have your songs appeared on TV? Let's count: twice in the eighties, zero times in the nineties, a couple of times in the two thousandths. I mean Garkusha with the song “I was born under a hood” in the film of the Teacher “Rock” of 1987, the same year of “Burglar” Ogorodnikov, again with Garkusha, “ Music ring" in 1989, "The Road" in "Brother-2" in 2000, "There will be no winter" in "Boomer" in 2004. No doubt, the films are noble, but ... Oh, I forgot, on the radio a couple of songs from the people's favorite "Birds" were played in 1995. Not rare?

Well, we went to Dibrov three more times, to different programs, after which they closed. Is it a coincidence or something. I attended all such programs only because my friends asked - Oleg Garkusha, Vova Volkov, for example. If it were not for my friends, I would never have appeared on the screen anywhere. I'm kind of alien to TV. My friend, Lesha Agranovich, the director of all sorts of spectacles, ceremonies and presentations, always thinks that this is the time - and he will promote me there, into the light. So, a few years ago, he invited us to perform at one of the first Golden Eagle award ceremonies, where the three of us were me, Volkov and Tatiana Grindenko. And we were the only ones cut from the record.

Do you remember the Musical Ring program? In that memorable "Ring" in 1989, the audience reacted to the AU in the same interesting way as to Kuryokhin's quite Oberiut lecture "Lenin-mushroom" in Sholokhov's program "The Fifth Wheel".

When we entered the Leningrad Rock Club, by the way, we were suspected that we were mishandled Cossacks. There were already groups without pathos, so to speak. "Weird Games" for example. Everyone kept us as strange, we didn’t care how the Komsomol members perceive us. Honestly, over the past twenty years, my desire not to shine anywhere, not to hang out, has only grown stronger. I won't speak for everyone else. You see, in the eighties, when we just started playing, of course, we wanted recognition and all sorts of fame, but we quickly cooled off. There were many opportunities to appear in the box thoroughly. But when I started talking to people from there, I didn't really like it. Not people, but the whole atmosphere of what is called show business. So I merged with TV, began to somehow abruptly refuse offers. Social circle and interests were clearly not mine. That is, it was boring, dreary and it is not clear why. I didn't like the results of rare appearances on TV. Why shine there when there is still no music industry in the country. There is earning money, but there is no quality of the product at the output. And then, in the eighties and nineties, it was all the more a kindergarten. Were musical ideas- theirs, not theirs, it doesn't matter. And when you realize that, having spent a lot of effort and time on the implementation of these ideas, you will have to turn everything into a booth, into a product that is digestible for the viewer, you choose something else: you do only what is interesting. So I methodically did this interesting thing. It would be interesting for me to do something with the directors I know, maybe they with me, but we have our own business, it's hard to find time.

So you like the director of the film about Landau, because you starred there?

There were shootings of Stalin's Moscow in Kharkov, these hundreds of people in the clothes of the thirties, it is so unlike anything, not projecting, but an experiment, in fact, not just a show of mummers. Of course, when both a person and his ideas are liked, there is an understanding that he will not make the film below the expected level. Igor Voloshin, Ilya Khrzhanovsky - they are approximately on the same wavelength, we talked a lot. Not exactly common interests, but we are in the same space, despite the fact that we are different. It used to be that other directors offered scripts to read, asked if they liked it, if it was great. I had to say that it was not great, because I did not want to go back, go down to the basements, waste time. This feeling of lower flight and level is inherent in everyone, that is, those projects where I could have participated ten years ago are now in no way suitable.

At the age of sixty-three, in 1937, my great-grandfather married a young, seventeen-year-old beauty, and she poisoned him

All the people from the "Auktyon" somehow inadvertently, accidentally picked up for joint creativity. For example, a man with operatic vocals, Sergei Rogozhin, appeared in Ozersky's field of vision at the Institute of Culture and immediately sang at the AC; a disco dancer came, as they say now - a representative of the lifestyle contemporary dance, Vova Veselkin - and immediately made a crazy duet with Oleg Garkusha. Never had a clear plan for what the AU should be like?

Yes, unplanned economy. But we were ambitious, we wanted everything at once. The people gathered are not quite ordinary, but this is fate. As in Garkusha's poetry, "a boy, like a boy, was born under a cap." These moments cannot be explained, it happened, and that's it. In that country, we simply did not have the right to perform, only at dances. When I quit my job after taking two days off work, my parents told me I was crazy because we only played at the rock club five times a year and for free. They enjoyed the stage and the sound, that's all. But since 1988, there have been opportunities for, so to speak, not a free drive. Garkusha and Bondarik, cautious people, worked in their offices until 1991 or something.

And when did you meet Sergey Kuryokhin?

Somewhere in 1985, but Garkusha was more familiar with him, he actively participated in Pop Mechanics. As soon as Kuryokhin saw Garkusha in the "Auktyon", he immediately took him into his hands. We had a mutual friend, Firsov, so we sometimes met with him, especially in the last years of Sergei's life. You see, Kuryokhin generally influenced everyone and everything, but the rest had no less influence. "Aquarium" as a musical phenomenon influenced me much more than "Pop Mechanics". "Pop Mechanics" was a product of that atmosphere. It was for us a normal visual embodiment of what is happening around. Brought the goat to the stage, brought folk artists in the role of janitors, well done. Some special aspiration, cries of “ah!” we did not have. You see, at that time it was in everyone's head. I was always more interested in music, I would be too lazy to take a goat, but he easily embodied this general collective madness. The show was purple for me in the Auktyone too. Ozersky wants a performance - please, let him do it. Miller wants to put some kind of suit on me - come on, if it's not too tight in it. We did not invent anything, everything was taken from the atmosphere of that time.

In quite Soviet, but good movie The idea of ​​the Rock teacher was illustrative - to show the troubadours-troublemakers unbearable to the state as quiet, useful to society "cogs": the simple stoker Vitya Tsoi, the gentle father Borya Grebenshchikov, the slender dance teacher Anton Adasinsky, the affectionate projectionist Oleg Garkusha and so on. And what was Tsoi in reality, for example?

Choi is amazing, his fate is amazing. Not a stoker, but rather Lermontov. He achieved gigantic popularity without any media at all. When he appeared on television, he was so famous, such an idol that it was PR for the TV, and not for Vitya. Everyone without exception knew about Tsoi. Once we played in "Pop Mechanics", in August 1988, in Alushta. We arrived in a crowd, all the pop mechanics, there were fifteen of us, including me, Garkundel, Gasparyan. The first day was completely wild: they didn’t want to put us in a hotel, we slept in some kind of wooden pioneer camp, nobody needed us. In addition, there was a scandalous concert. But the next day, Tsoi arrived, who had already done the “Blood Type”. And in a magical, dramatic way, everything changed at once. We were put up in the best hotel, we went to the special beach. Fans crowded around from all sides, shouting: “Choi!” More Africa - Sergey Bugaev was wildly popular after the movie "Assa". Nobody knew Kuryokhin at all, especially us, and Tsoi sounded from every tape recorder, kiosk, tavern and nook.

The show was purple for me in the Auktyone too. Ozersky wants a performance - please, let him do it. Miller wants to put some kind of suit on me - let's, if it's not too tight in it

Your duets with Volkov and Ozersky can only be heard in small clubs. What, too lazy to hang posters on fences, to collect some kind of "Olympic"?

Well-u-u ... And why, and why? I don't think it needs to be done now. It's not about the posters, you never know different Vasya Pupkins hanging over Tverskaya. There is some inner feeling of how many people can listen to this music, who really needs it. I understand why Tsoi could gather half a million people. And what are we, with what songs, in fact, could we go out: “I can’t and can’t be like everyone else”? (Laughs.) I do not think that now with Vvedensky and Khlebnikov one can be the idols of the country.

When did you meet Vladimir Volkov?

Volkov always knew. But we didn't know each other personally until 1997. I was far from the music that Volkov played, far from any free jazz and other things. Somehow fate brought him together, at the funeral of Kuryokhin. Vova spoke about his "Volkov-Trio", and then our first record came out - "There will be no winter." When it was recorded, I was in great doubt whether this record should be released. It was even for us a strange and unusual sound production. The approach to music was rebuilt. They chose an experiment, so what the ten of us have been doing for the past ten years could not help in any way, this is a completely different activity. I know perfectly well that my close friends, that is, the entire Auktyon, do not need this, it is not in their area of ​​​​interest. It's not about who to sing to the verses, Khlebnikov or Khvostenko. The point is this. All discs recorded with Volkov are absolutely one-time things. Recently, Vova and I listened to a piece of "Besonders" and realized that now we would have done it completely differently, but only five years have passed. You see, this is inserted into the context of time, it could only be recorded instantly. Volkov is absolutely mobile - he got ready in half an hour and arrived. We whistled something and we sit quietly at night playing, he quietly plays the double bass so as not to wake the neighbors. With a large AU, this was not possible then, but it is already possible now. Everyone already understands, gathered and felt. Suddenly it became clear how to record without rehearsals, without hundreds of takes, how to record the very givenness of time in time, at this very minute. All AU discs were made traditionally: we whole year rehearsed songs, quite painfully, and then quickly wrote everything down. Therefore, I was never happy with the result: what was invented never turned out on the record, and I could not understand why. It suddenly dawned on me that only what happened in the studio itself turned out, unexpectedly, lit up in the process of recording itself, and not at rehearsals that lasted a year. “Dweller of the Peaks” turned out because not only everything that was invented in advance, but also the insights of different people on the recording itself, immediately fit in. But still, there was an invention. And all the work with Volkov is pure improvisation, without duplicates. We just try three - usually - options and choose. So? Not this way? Here he is! He is such a. And that's it.

Watch the video of the interview with Leonid Fedorov and Dmitry Ozersky